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You know, agreeing with yourself on three different characters (yes, I can see that Envied, Nude, and Poetry are all on the same account) isn't actually helping your case.

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I attracted blue.

Druids would love to have abilities in the feral and balance trees that make them desireable as damage dealers/tanks in raids. You at blizzard have added some, but as you can see from this and many posts like it many people don't feel they are adequate to convince a raid to allow an "off spec" druid in a serious raid group.

I'm curious what your stance is on these issues sir?

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All I want is for Lacerate to be an instant attack that does not reset the swing timer. That is my case. See my most recent post for the rationale.
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It is an instant attack that does not reset the swing timer, the web preview is being updated to reflect that.

As far as the other concerns expressed in this thread, I think it has been pointed out by many players in this thread that there are quite a few new talents that are intended to improve the viability of balance and feral druids in raids.

I'm certainly keeping an eye on the feedback here, but I also recognize that some of you won't be satisfied in this respect until the mechanics are so heavy-handed that balance and feral druids become outright required for raids (which isn't likely to happen).

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We don't want to required in a raid, we want to have as much viablity in a raid as a healer than as a feral or balance.
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I get that, and I want feral and balance druids to feel wanted in a raid as well. I'm trying to point out that I firmly believe that with the new talents/spells, these builds will be wanted more than they previously were, not less.

If you come accross as not recognizing that there are a number of talents/spells that are intended to do just that, and instead accuse us of not wanting feral or balance druids to be viable in raids (not that you specifically made those accusations), then I'm going to be inclined to believe that the mechanics would have to be such that those builds would be required in raids in order for you to feel merely wanted in a raid.

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It is an instant attack that does not reset the swing timer, the web preview is being updated to reflect that.

As far as the other concerns expressed in this thread, I think it has been pointed out by many players in this thread that there are quite a few new talents that are intended to improve the viability of balance and feral druids in raids.

I'm certainly keeping an eye on the feedback here, but I also recognize that some of you won't be satisfied in this respect until the mechanics are so heavy-handed that balance and feral druids become outright required for raids (which isn't likely to happen).
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I can understand your views on the druid class. It's a tightrope really. Overpower this class and the other 8 classes become obsolete.

i guess my argument here is, no one really complains much when a resto specced druid steps into the raid or group. When a feral or balance druid does there are often questions of viability.

I acknowledge the things that have been added to the druid class and I appreciate them. Improved faerie fire is indeed a welcome addition among the others. I suppose what I am looking for is something that aids the raid when I am in moonkin form or cat form. (Bear form adds an off tank which can pose useful).

The problem when I am in cat form is that I want to do damage in that DPS form so my gear reflects that. While I can most likely pop out and toss a few heals here and there, I can't do it very often because of an exetremely limited mana pool(even with HotW). So I was hoping for some alternate way for someone geared for cat form DPS to be desired (not necassary) for raids.

The same holds true for moonkin form. If I pop out I can most likely heal more than I could have as cat form, but I'm using the same mana pool I use to nuke to heal with at that point.

i suppose I just don't want to be scoffed at for not constantly healing in a raid. With the stigma of min/maxing in this game I just don't currently see any alternatives as viable.

In my stubborn mind all 3 talent trees from every class in this game should be desired in all raids/groups.

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This is where you fail, until Balance and Feral Druids are required on raids they will continue to be excluded from end game guilds and end game content. Any guild will pigeon hole us into a healer role.

Further, to even say "heavy handed" is necessary to impart a quality of required isn't fair. Heavy handed mechanics would put Druids into raids at the exclusion of other classes. Fair mechanics that require Druids would simply put them on equal footing/desirability as ALL classes deserve.

But flat out, hands down, 100% proven in multiple MMORPG's unless you have an element that requires a class it will be excluded in favor of min/max classes. Think Thanes + DAoC if you need an example.
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Frankly, I don't think it's this black-and-white. In the world of theorycraft, guilds min/max their raid compositions "perfectly". However, the reality is that raid composition can vary pretty significantly (if the guilds that have beaten Naxxramas are any indicator), yet still be successful (ie: one guild beating Nax with 1 hunter, another with 6 hunters in the raid).

I believe that the class mechanics need to get you to the point where raids can choose their participants based on the skill of the player behind the controls, rather than based on the mechanics themselves, despite the inevitability of class preferences (not to be mistaken with requirements) that are not only based off the class' mechancis, but also on the encounters themselves.

Now, while it may or may not apply to this particular case, I've found that time and time again, players mistake being excluded from raids as a failure of the class, when the reality is that the officers responsible for selecting players are excluding the player based on either that player's skill (but they often don't actually say this to the player in question) or other "human factors".

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So it's ok for mages, rogues, warriors, priests, paladins to be outright required. It is ok for resto-druids to be (almost) outright required but it's unimaginable for feral or balance to be that way... Why?
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So, by that line of logic arcane, fire, and frost mages, combat, subtlety, and assasination rogues, shadow, holy, and discipline priests are all required? Right.

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