Poster: Runefist at 2006-11-30 13:54:18
Subject: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is... |
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Take everything you can find out about shaman and their review for TBC. Go ahead. Just look at the class as a whole. Look at all of the wonderful things that shaman now have at their disposal!
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Now take away earth shield and dual wield (ignore that they've been implimented)
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Now look at the review again. I seriously doubt that you can call that a very good review for TBC expansion. In fact... it's downright terrible.
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[OPTIONAL] Now look at the shaman review in compared to other class reviews. Be prepared with tissue though in case you start crying.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=1&sid=1#0 |
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Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 15:36:09
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Q u o t e:
Hey, pallies can wear plate and a shield, so they actually CAN tank, whereas a shaman absolutely CAN'T in TBC. I'm still a little curious why there is even a shield specialization talent... or a toughness talent for that matter.
For the melee dps situations where a Shaman would be in close proximity to the target. Mitigating damage from a cleave-like move.
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=1&sid=1#18 |
Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 15:41:39
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Q u o t e:
but then if you put on a shield you stop doing real damage tseric... O.o
Real damage? Sure, you'll do less than having 2 hand or DW equipped. Would you want to make things easier on healers in your group?
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=2&sid=1#28 |
Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 15:46:36
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Q u o t e:
Understandable logic, but Shield Specialization isn't ideal for those situations.
Here are two problems with Shield Specialization that I think many Shamans have.
1) It shares a tier with Ancestral Knowledge. Although "caster" Shamans often use shields and could possibly get the most use out of it, they would often rather pick up the extra mana.
2) The Enhancement tree heavily encourages the use of either Two Handed Weapons or Dual Wielding, especially when they're dealing damage. Points spent in Shield Specialization are points that can only be utlizied so often.
It's not a "useless" talent, but its general placement really works against it.
Sure. I can see that. But, are you suggesting that it be swapped out? Then, wouldn't you end up back at square one with a choice between two talents, with one being more desirable for the situation?
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=2&sid=1#36 |
Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 15:51:59
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Q u o t e:
Its pretty well known that the early Enhancement talents are pretty lackluster
Will they be fixed or changed? Not a chance
That is now the common term for talents that players aren't going to choose, heh.
Why should they, exactly? Overall, the tree is providing enhanced melee dps for raid viability. Is it absolutely necessary to have every single talent feed into that cause?
Does it have no value as an early leveling talent?
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=3&sid=1#45 |
Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 15:58:42
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Q u o t e:
only resto is viable for raiding
Don't know if I can buy into this.
Enhancement has been showing competitive dps in raid situations. Practically to the surprise of the devs. Elemental may not be the favored spec, due to 'boring' LB spam, but again, it's not like elemental specs aren't going to show up in raids or dungeons and provide damage.
If anything, rather than tinkering with early enhancement, the devs are more interested in tinkering with late elemental.
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=3&sid=1#57 |
Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 16:00:53
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Q u o t e:
but you seem to be on this forum telling shaman how to play thier class
Dispense with this excuse. I'm simply offering an outside perspective.
Forget I said anything. It's the end of the day for me. Maybe I'll see you later.
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=4&sid=1#64 |
Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 16:25:09
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Q u o t e:
And I don't mean to be offensive to you, nor counter productive. But if i majored in physics than why would I take the outside opinion of someone who majored in english over my fellow phyics majors?
I'm asking questions in attempt to start a dialogue. The problem comes in when so many players demand qualifications or written certification or a screenshot of a 60 shaman to prove that I am as fully intimate with the class, talents, gear or any other nuance as they are.
I am not and really don't have intention to be in the near future. If that's a problem for you, it is in fact your problem. It's affect on the feedback I can take from this board and offer the devs is practically non-existant.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is better on class forums to not post at all, so I don't have to sift through players' emotional reactions. First thing those folks like to do is take issue with the way I say things or that I'm telling them how to play their class. "You can't possibly understand! You haven't had to bear the burden that I have!"
And already, I can hear someone saying, "Why are you responding to that guy instead of the well-thought out stuff?!?!"
You know why? Because the well-thought out folks tend to provide feedback that doesn't need a reply, but can merely be condensed and passed on. I can read it and understand. The rest...well...here we are.
I'm still done for the day.
Nert and others, I do like the way you post and I am reading it. I'm just to riled up right now to make a go of discussion. For that, I'm sorry.
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=6&sid=1#101 |
Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 16:42:23
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Q u o t e:
What people "got" is irrelevant. Some people needed more help, like druids. What is relevant is the state of all classes at endgame.
Thank you. This is very much the sentiment of the devs.
Ok, one last comment, I guess...
The devs have been trying to make the trees more raid-viable. Resto might appear fairly straight forward, right? Enhancement has seen large increase in raid viablility. Elemental, while it still contributes, could do a little moreso. End-game viability is something that is within the scope of the class, at this time.
The PvP situation hasn't been stressed as much, as it wasn't as lacking as the notion of raid-viability. If you're interested in discussing that matter, please do.
Also, I know you've heard it a thousand times before and it really doesn't matter one jot or tittle to me if you believe me now, but the Totem UI is still on development's table. This, however, involves more than just the class designers and the UI folks have been reasonably tied up with a host of other UI changes from the LFG system to increasing bag sizes.
In all honesty, time is short until the patch and release. Any further changes made to Shaman at this point are likely to come in a patch after release. This may be doom and gloom for some, but they'd probably take that attitude no matter what happened. Let's use some of our coming weeks for good discussion. I'll bring my pen and paper and try not to make to many offensive comments. :P
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=7&sid=1#120 |
Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 16:46:15
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Q u o t e:
If you wish, there is some civil discourse available on a Shaman Google group several of us (Nert, Zifna, Iapetes, etc.) participate in. Its address is http://groups.google.com/group/wowshamanclass - I believe I have it established so that you can peruse the threads without joining the list. If my guess is right, it might not be exactly kosher for CMs to go subscribing and participating in such venues. ;-)
That is very considerate of you. :)
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=7&sid=1#125 |
Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 16:58:33
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Q u o t e:
I hated Tseric in the beginning but I'm garnering a lot more respect for him because of one thing: He's still here talking to us.
If he actually relays our feedback to the devs and that causes subsequent change, I'll build him a freakin' shrine.
Wow, is that the first nice thing you said to me? My heart is aflutter. :p
If you want to look at it that way, think of it this way: I got Mages 10 waters per cast. I got Warriors trainable Tactical Mastery.
Sure, the process wasn't pretty, but neither is making hotdogs. ;)
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=8&sid=1#142 |
Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 17:00:13
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Q u o t e:
where are our skills to kill people in pvp better?
Bloodlust?
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=8&sid=1#144 |
Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 17:10:47
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Q u o t e:
Tseric, would you please comment on my post about the timing of this? I think that's important here for thos of us that have sweated it out, for years in my case :P
Being that you manage the community, I know you have some insight into the process and why this happened to us, not once (1.11), not twice (1.12), but three times (2.0.1)
What exactly am I going to say? "Oh, you're right, the devs don't really love you as much."
You'll pardon for saying, but it kind of seems like a go nowhere argument. It'll only end in tears and shouting. Perhaps sometime I could try to track the historical sweep of how much attention Shaman got from other classes, but I don't really have the time right now.
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=9&sid=1#169 |
Poster: Tseric at 2006-11-30 17:14:34
Subject: Re: Easiest way to see how bad TBC review is. |
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Oh yeah. This is really the last point I would like to leave you with.
You folks do now that overall, CC in BGs and Arenas is getting nerfed, right? By that, I mean the duration of CCs will be decreased in PvP instances.
So, the fear of being unable to close distance or break CC might be tempered with that notion. What have the Beta players been seeing about that?
[ Post edited by Tseric ]
I've got a heavy metal mouth. It hurls obscenity.
And I get my check straight from the trash treasury.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=50726974&pageNo=9&sid=1#174 |
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