Poster: Eyonix at 6/8/2006 1:37:18 PM PDT
Subject: Important: Please Read |
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Q u o t e:
Or better yet, get hit by a bus so that I may never have to read even one more of your ridiculous posts, Eyonix.
I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
This is but one example of the type of post which will result in the permanent removal from our boards. I've been seeing quite a bit of this lately and I believe that I've allowed every one opportunity to vent their frustrations. This is a video game. There is never just cause or reason to wish serious real life harm, or even death upon someone due any aspect of this game's design.
If you disagree with me concerning the aspect of real life threat, or can't control emotion to the point of crossing this particular line, you don't belong on our boards -- plain and simple.
You've had less communication concerning your review than any other class, I'm aware, and agree that it's unfortunate. Unfortunate in regards to perspective only, however. The design team is fully aware of the feedback offered from each region playing a Shaman. They've been aware of the feedback through every stage of the review, regardless of the amount of "blue" appearing on these boards discussing the Shaman.
I'd like to begin discussing various items relating to the review with everyone, but you should be aware that I won't do so while this community remains in its current state. Please understand, I'm not under any obligation ever to respond to any specific thread, or participate in a particular discussion, or post on a particular board. I'd like to provide this community with more than just announcement messaging. However...
Angry, frustrated, upset, disappointed, infuriated.
None of these feelings, justified or not, make it okay to harass, insult or threaten another human being.
We're not done making changes to the Shaman. We may not have time to make additional changes in time for 1.11, however. This quite simply isn't the end of the world, I'm sorry. The Shaman review wasn't even initially scheduled to commence until patch 1.12. What's also important is the fact that this review brought about many positive improvements, whether an individual chooses to acknowledge this or not is out of my control.
The Shaman in its current state is far from "broken", and in patch 1.11, players will feel the effect of noticeable improvements overall. It's safe to say, even more so in patch 1.12. Claiming this is the worst review ever for reasons pertaining to x, y and z isn't very productive, and accomplishes little except to make yourself even more upset.
We've heard the frustrations being expressed here with the same certainty from players of every class each time a review comes around. We're not interested in comparisons, nor are we interested in flames or unproductive criticisms. These forums are a separate entity from the game. They exist so we can hear your voice, and so that each of you can better know one. We'll respond when and where we feel it's appropriate, but that's done based upon our own discretion.
Post your feedback and wait patiently. If you've become too frustrated, don't login to the forums for a few days. Manage your own emotion before posting here. When as a community, you're ready to discuss your class and the recent review, void of victimizing claims or venomous language, I'll be ready to respond.
Those violating our Posting Guidelines will be dealt with swiftly.[ post edited by Eyonix ]
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-shaman&t=607966&p=#post607966 | | | Poster: Eyonix at 6/8/2006 1:59:43 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Important: Please Read |
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Q u o t e:
Now that I know for certain that the patch was supposed to be 1.12 for us shaman I am not nearly as upset. The only real problem I see so far is manatide and enhancement. Enhancement just needs to have more versatility in build choices considering right now there is only one "good" direction to take your shamans spec 31 points in. Everything else just fails in comparison miserably.
Mana tide just needs to be higher in the tree ro trainable.
We definitely wanted to (and still intend to) add more raid viability to the Enhancement tree, just not likely in time for patch 1.11. There are a number of changes going into this patch for the Shaman, and it's important that we don't "overdue" anything. We'll watch this first iteration closely, and continue to make improvements.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-shaman&t=607966&p=#post608070 | Poster: Eyonix at 6/8/2006 3:42:28 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Important: Please Read |
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Q u o t e:
Before this review fiasco, the shaman forum was probably the most mature and constructive class forum in WoW. What did we earn from that?
You should be mature and constructive because it's the right path to follow, not because you're looking for a reward. Beyond this, you're only seeing the small of the picture if you're already asking yourself what you've gained. The book is far from finished, you know.
Q u o t e:
With all due respect.
Please don't "threaten" the community with no communication because of the unnaceptable actions of a few individuals.
I completely agree that individuals who threaten or make personal attacks should be banned. But for you to come here and post this nonsense about "we won't talk to you until you calm down" is extremely insulting to those of us who's expressed our frustration in positive ways and have legitimately asked for better communication.
Please read my message again, friend. I'm not threatening to withhold any information. I'll always work hard to reveal the information that I'm presented with each day via email, phone conversation, docs, meetings and discussions. I'm stating that I'll not participate in open dilaloge or respond to individial concerns appearing on these boards while they remain in this state.
I genuinely regret not being able to communicate more these last few weeks, and I'm not going to make any excuses. But at the same time, I can't change what's been done -- I can only move forward. Since my return last Wednesday, I've been gathering the feedback that I solicited on these boards, and have been in discussion with the class designers -- and as a matter of fact, have another meeting tomorrow, specifically dedicated to the Shaman class review.
The fact is, you read my message wrong if you felt insulted, because it wasn't the least bit insulting. The emotional reaction I'm seeing is poor host for discussion, and if change of communication is what you seek, improvements need to come from both sides. I'm fully aware how great many of you have been in providing feedback, ideas and suggestions -- but proper communication is more than that, it's about you treat someone when responding to what they've said, even if it's not what you wanted to hear.
Grudges, blame and flame -- no matter how righteous you feel your point may be, provide nothing of value.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-shaman&t=607966&p=#post608582 | Poster: Eyonix at 6/8/2006 3:55:07 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Important: Please Read |
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Q u o t e:
Heh, that must be your thing Eyonix... "Perspective". I remember talking to you at E3 and hearing that word *a lot*. Many times it was associated with you saying the players don't see things from the devs perspective, or your perspective, or the designers perspective. Well, Eyonix, we can't - you don't give us the details to form that perspective. All we have is our own, and frankly sometimes I think the devs don't always see *our* perspective.
You guys need to come at this fairly and objectively. We see the holes, we've identified the holes in our systems, talents and skills, and proven them time and time again. If the devs have taken our proof to the next level with only the data they can see and found things to be fine, then we need to know why it's fine and you need to give us proof to the contrary. There's just not enough communication here and you already admitted that.
Eyonix, I want to read a post by you and finish it not thinking it's just lip-service, I really do, but you need to prove to us that you're going to do what you say - I think we deserve that much.
Everything is perspective, Kainazzo. Life isn't about attempting to learn every perspective imaginable, it's just not possible. However, learning to recognize that truth exists beyond our own perspective, and that we may not always see the entirety of of thing is very important. Especially in situations, where as you say, "details to form perspectives" are unavailable.
In any case, while I'd like you to read one of my posts and finish thinking it was more than lip-service, that's not up to me, unfortunately. I am who I am, and have always been honest. You see the world and its elements in the manner of your choosing. I have nothing to prove, I'm afraid. This is a forum dedicated to a video game. I think too many people are forgetting to have fun.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-shaman&t=607966&p=#post608651 | Poster: Eyonix at 6/8/2006 3:42:28 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Important: Please Read *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Before this review fiasco, the shaman forum was probably the most mature and constructive class forum in WoW. What did we earn from that?
You should be mature and constructive because it's the right path to follow, not because you're looking for a reward. Beyond this, you're only seeing the small of the picture if you're already asking yourself what you've gained. The book is far from finished, you know.
Q u o t e:
With all due respect.
Please don't "threaten" the community with no communication because of the unnaceptable actions of a few individuals.
I completely agree that individuals who threaten or make personal attacks should be banned. But for you to come here and post this nonsense about "we won't talk to you until you calm down" is extremely insulting to those of us who's expressed our frustration in positive ways and have legitimately asked for better communication.
Please read my message again, friend. I'm not threatening to withhold any information. I'll always work hard to reveal the information that I'm presented with each day via email, phone conversation, docs, meetings and discussions. I'm stating that I'll not participate in open dilaloge or respond to individial concerns appearing on these boards while they remain in this state.
I genuinely regret not being able to communicate more these last few weeks, and I'm not going to make any excuses. But at the same time, I can't change what's been done -- I can only move forward. Since my return last Wednesday, I've been gathering the feedback that I solicited on these boards, and have been in discussion with the class designers -- and as a matter of fact, have another meeting tomorrow, specifically dedicated to the Shaman class review.
The fact is, you read my message wrong if you felt insulted, because it wasn't the least bit insulting. The emotional reaction I'm seeing is poor host for discussion, and if change of communication is what you seek, improvements need to come from both sides. I'm fully aware how great many of you have been in providing feedback, ideas and suggestions -- but proper communication is more than that, it's about you treat someone when responding to what they've said, even if it's not what you wanted to hear.
Grudges, blame and flame -- no matter how righteous you feel your point may be, provide nothing of value.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-shaman&t=607966&p=#post608582 | Poster: Eyonix at 6/8/2006 3:55:07 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Important: Please Read *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Heh, that must be your thing Eyonix... "Perspective". I remember talking to you at E3 and hearing that word *a lot*. Many times it was associated with you saying the players don't see things from the devs perspective, or your perspective, or the designers perspective. Well, Eyonix, we can't - you don't give us the details to form that perspective. All we have is our own, and frankly sometimes I think the devs don't always see *our* perspective.
You guys need to come at this fairly and objectively. We see the holes, we've identified the holes in our systems, talents and skills, and proven them time and time again. If the devs have taken our proof to the next level with only the data they can see and found things to be fine, then we need to know why it's fine and you need to give us proof to the contrary. There's just not enough communication here and you already admitted that.
Eyonix, I want to read a post by you and finish it not thinking it's just lip-service, I really do, but you need to prove to us that you're going to do what you say - I think we deserve that much.
Everything is perspective, Kainazzo. Life isn't about attempting to learn every perspective imaginable, it's just not possible. However, learning to recognize that truth exists beyond our own perspective, and that we may not always see the entirety of of thing is very important. Especially in situations, where as you say, "details to form perspectives" are unavailable.
In any case, while I'd like you to read one of my posts and finish thinking it was more than lip-service, that's not up to me, unfortunately. I am who I am, and have always been honest. You see the world and its elements in the manner of your choosing. I have nothing to prove, I'm afraid. This is a forum dedicated to a video game. I think too many people are forgetting to have fun.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-shaman&t=607966&p=#post608651 | Poster: Eyonix at 6/8/2006 3:42:28 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Important: Please Read *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Before this review fiasco, the shaman forum was probably the most mature and constructive class forum in WoW. What did we earn from that?
You should be mature and constructive because it's the right path to follow, not because you're looking for a reward. Beyond this, you're only seeing the small of the picture if you're already asking yourself what you've gained. The book is far from finished, you know.
Q u o t e:
With all due respect.
Please don't "threaten" the community with no communication because of the unnaceptable actions of a few individuals.
I completely agree that individuals who threaten or make personal attacks should be banned. But for you to come here and post this nonsense about "we won't talk to you until you calm down" is extremely insulting to those of us who's expressed our frustration in positive ways and have legitimately asked for better communication.
Please read my message again, friend. I'm not threatening to withhold any information. I'll always work hard to reveal the information that I'm presented with each day via email, phone conversation, docs, meetings and discussions. I'm stating that I'll not participate in open dilaloge or respond to individial concerns appearing on these boards while they remain in this state.
I genuinely regret not being able to communicate more these last few weeks, and I'm not going to make any excuses. But at the same time, I can't change what's been done -- I can only move forward. Since my return last Wednesday, I've been gathering the feedback that I solicited on these boards, and have been in discussion with the class designers -- and as a matter of fact, have another meeting tomorrow, specifically dedicated to the Shaman class review.
The fact is, you read my message wrong if you felt insulted, because it wasn't the least bit insulting. The emotional reaction I'm seeing is poor host for discussion, and if change of communication is what you seek, improvements need to come from both sides. I'm fully aware how great many of you have been in providing feedback, ideas and suggestions -- but proper communication is more than that, it's about you treat someone when responding to what they've said, even if it's not what you wanted to hear.
Grudges, blame and flame -- no matter how righteous you feel your point may be, provide nothing of value.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-shaman&t=607966&p=#post608582 | Poster: Eyonix at 6/8/2006 3:55:07 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Important: Please Read *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Heh, that must be your thing Eyonix... "Perspective". I remember talking to you at E3 and hearing that word *a lot*. Many times it was associated with you saying the players don't see things from the devs perspective, or your perspective, or the designers perspective. Well, Eyonix, we can't - you don't give us the details to form that perspective. All we have is our own, and frankly sometimes I think the devs don't always see *our* perspective.
You guys need to come at this fairly and objectively. We see the holes, we've identified the holes in our systems, talents and skills, and proven them time and time again. If the devs have taken our proof to the next level with only the data they can see and found things to be fine, then we need to know why it's fine and you need to give us proof to the contrary. There's just not enough communication here and you already admitted that.
Eyonix, I want to read a post by you and finish it not thinking it's just lip-service, I really do, but you need to prove to us that you're going to do what you say - I think we deserve that much.
Everything is perspective, Kainazzo. Life isn't about attempting to learn every perspective imaginable, it's just not possible. However, learning to recognize that truth exists beyond our own perspective, and that we may not always see the entirety of of thing is very important. Especially in situations, where as you say, "details to form perspectives" are unavailable.
In any case, while I'd like you to read one of my posts and finish thinking it was more than lip-service, that's not up to me, unfortunately. I am who I am, and have always been honest. You see the world and its elements in the manner of your choosing. I have nothing to prove, I'm afraid. This is a forum dedicated to a video game. I think too many people are forgetting to have fun.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-shaman&t=607966&p=#post608651 |
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