Poster: Overen at 3/8/2006 8:49:18 AM PST
Subject: [Good Ideas] : On How to Fix the Rogue Class |
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This is a followup to the vision post found here:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=949453&p=1&tmp=1#post949453
I tried to think of a way to tune the rogue class that wouldn't require a ton of development work and would solve the issues with the class as I saw it without resorting to upping our dps to extreme levels and causing the same sorts of problems the class originally had. I added a bunch of utility, broke out the talent trees between SS and Backstab [and hemo] and organized things alot better.
I sincerely hope that someone from blue will at least take a look at this and respond, I've spent a great deal of time on this.
OK, first off to consider is Eviscerate. It doesn't scale. Past a certain point it pales in comparision to what SnD can do for a rogue [once you're past 150 autoattack DPS to be exact]. It needs to be buffed but it needs to be buffed in an intelligent way so as to take into account scaling but NOT buffing swords or daggers more than the other. For that, I advise breaking it into two skills, one that will be useful for daggers and one that will be useful for swords.
Here's my take at this:
Eviscerate [modified]
Convert this to the weapon damage system so eviscerate will scale along the lines of almost every other worthwhile ability in the game. 45+random[5] percent base weapon damage per combo point should scale it nicely.
- TOP END: 1050 AP, CTS : 400 topend damage. With 5 CP it does 900-1000 dmg.
- LOW END: 600 AP, Dal Rend: 280 topend damage. With 5 CP it does 625-700 dmg.
Going from the not so uber to uber increases damage range by 30 percent.
Reasoning:
Currently, at the low end, eviscerate is the end all of the rogue class, this is why the gold farmers are able to perform as well as they can - because eviscerate doesn't scale at all they are actually penalized less than any other class for having a crappy weapon/crappy gear. The damage done by eviscerate should scale.
In this incarnation, however, it SUCKS for dagger rogues or rogues with fast weapons, since they will have low damage ranges. My guess is that is why eviscerate operates on a flat damage scale and doesn't scale at all ... the scaling system between swords and daggers would probably be completely broken. STOP NURSING THIS AND DROP DAGGERS FROM EVIS ALTOGETHER. Instead, add a new finisher geared for dagger rogues/people with fast weapons that would not become inbalanced when used by sword rogues/people with slow weapons.
Please note that this is a nerf in it's base form, especially to low geared rogues.
Impale [added skill]
Causes the rogue to slash or stab with his currently wielded weapon a number of times depend on the speed of the weapon being used. If the target dies before all attacks are finished, the remainer of the attacks are lost.
The formula for the attacks should be:
BASE: 2 attacks
If the weapon is below 2.1 speed: [330*[2.0-weaponspeed]] percent chance for additional attack
If the weapon is below 1.8 speed: [330*[1.7-weaponspeed]] percent chance for additional attack
Here is a matrix of how many attacks with what speed weapon:
[ul][ul]
2.1+: 2 attacks
2.0: 2 attacks with 33 percent chance at 3 attacks
1.9: 2 attacks with 66 percent chance at 3 attacks
1.8: 2 attacks with 99 percent chance at 3 attacks
1.7: 3 attacks with 33 percent chance at 4 attacks
1.6: 3 attacks with 66 percent chance at 4 attacks
1.5: 3 attacks with 99 percent chance at 4 attacks
HIGH END: 1050 AP, Pugio [1.7] : 275 topend damage.
- 33 percent of the time it will do 825 damage noncrit.
- 66 percent of the time it will do 1100 damage noncrit.
- On AVERAGE it will do 1008 damage.
LOW END: 600 AP, Glacial Blade [1.8] : 186 topend damage.
- 99 percent of the time it will do 744 damage.
- 1 percent of the time it will do 558 damage.
- On AVERAGE it will do 742 damage.
Going from not so uber to uber nets in a 28 percent increase in topend damage.
Sanity Check
---- Death's Sting and the Rank 14 daggers might break this, let's see:
DS [1.9], 1050 AP: 306 max hit
- 66 percent of the time it does 918 damage noncrit.
- 33 percent of the time it does 612 damage noncrit.
- On AVERAGE it will do 816 dmg.
HW [2.0], 1050 AP: 304 max hit
- 66 percent of the time it does 608 damage noncrit.
- 33 percent of the time it does 912 damage noncrit.
- On AVERAGE it will do 709 dmg.
Yes, going to those high speed/high topend damage weapons will assure that you get extremely large backstab crits, your impale damage however will drop some. This minor drop will not offset the increased damage you will do with those weapons, however, and it should only reasonable affect those two weapons [if you wanted to tune them to do higher dps and decrease the speed in this patch, that would solve this issue altogether].
Reasoning:
Because eviscerate was moved to a percentile system, it is very very easy to tune impale to do the same damage range with a faster weapon. Yes, doing it this way means that a weapon like Julie's dagger may add an extra attack over the average speed dagger, but the crappy damage range on this weapon will mean it will overall deal less damage with this skill as well.
The reason that the higher damage daggers have less of a chance to deal the multiple attack is two fold. First, from an RP sense, the faster your weapon the more often you can swing it in this type of scenario. Second, from a real-sense point of view, slower weapons have higher damage ranges. This higher damage range makes it so you should have to swing less often to deal the samage amount of damage. This is taking the DPS of a weapon into PoV without actually caring about what that DPS is.
Please note AGAIN that this is a NERF to current rogues as is, without the talents.[ post edited by Overen ]
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=971283&p=#post971283 | | | Poster: Coreiel at 3/9/2006 5:27:08 PM PST
Subject: Re: [Good Ideas] : On How to Fix the Rogue Cl |
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Excellent post, Overen. While I normally simply forward constructive posts to our CMs without responding, this post deserves the blue aura.
Keep up the good work.
I do not like it, Sham-I-Am.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=971283&p=#post975919 | Poster: Coreiel at 3/9/2006 5:39:35 PM PST
Subject: Re: [Good Ideas] : On How to Fix the Rogue Cl |
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Q u o t e:
so you guys do read stuff in this forum :p
We may not always be talking, but we're always listening.
Allow me to reiterate at this point in time that I am not a CM - posts directed at me will accomplish nothing. I am, however, taking an in-depth look at each class's community and its concerns, and helping facilitate communication between the CM team and the community.
;) Part of my job is to read every post on the forums, and this is just my way of branching out. I want to help you guys, so please, keep making constructive, well-thought-out, well-organized posts like this one. Your feedback will make it to the ears of people who can make a difference.
Why does Death wear robes?
To hide her wings.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=971283&p=#post975946 | Poster: Coreiel at 3/9/2006 5:39:35 PM PST
Subject: Re: [Good Ideas] : On How to Fix the Rogue Cl *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
so you guys do read stuff in this forum :p
We may not always be talking, but we're always listening.
Allow me to reiterate at this point in time that I am not a CM - posts directed at me will accomplish nothing. I am, however, taking an in-depth look at each class's community and its concerns, and helping facilitate communication between the CM team and the community.
;) Part of my job is to read every post on the forums, and this is just my way of branching out. I want to help you guys, so please, keep making constructive, well-thought-out, well-organized posts like this one. Your feedback will make it to the ears of people who can make a difference.
Why does Death wear robes?
To hide her wings.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=971283&p=#post975946 |
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