Poster: Tyren at 8/6/2005 8:14:33 PM PDT
Subject: Rogue developer feedback take 2 |
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Since the last dev feedback, 2 patches have come and gone. So it seems the time is right for another feedback pass at the rogue class. Please present your concerns about the current state of the rogue, in a clearl and thought out post, and we'll be sure to present those concerns to the developers.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=485255&p=#post485255 | | | Poster: Tyren at 8/6/2005 8:14:33 PM PDT
Subject: Rogue developer feedback take 2 *edited post* |
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Since the last dev feedback, 2 patches have come and gone. So it seems the time is right for another feedback pass at the rogue class. Please present your concerns about the current state of the rogue, in a clearl and thought out post, and we'll be sure to present those concerns to the developers.
It seems a lot of the same issues are coming up again, so please read the previous feedback from the developers:
Rogue utility in high end raid encounters
In Onyxia and Molten Core raids, several monsters in these encounters have incredibly powerful area of effect attacks to which Rogues are particularly vulnerable. The dev team is aware that Rogues have lower survivability than many other classes due to their proximity to the target, but at the same time, many raid guilds have been discovering that Rogues are clearly generating the most DPS in these raids (specifically in Molten Core), thus offsetting that disadvantage and making Rogues very desirable on high end raids.
Vanish breaking
A major concern of Rogues is the reliability of Vanish to successfully break spells in mid-cast. In the upcoming battlegrounds patch, Vanish rank 2 has been improved so that Vanish will more effectively break these spells from landing on the Rogue. Also changed, some spells have both a direct damage and a DOT effect. While Vanish previously cancelled out the DD, the DOT would remain. This has been changed so that Vanish breaks both the DD and DOT attack.
Another point that relates of Vanish and Stealth, is a change being considered for Hunter Flares. Once a Flare goes off, the area of effect of a Flare is not visible. The dev team is considering whether a visual enhancement is necessary to make the effect of a Flare more easily detectable.
Eviscerate
Three frequent questions were brought up about Eviscerate.
1. Eviscerate is an extremely powerful ability throughout much of your career. However, at level 60, Eviscerate seems to taper off in terms of damage output. While the dev team has not committed to a change, they are aware of this concern and are investigating the issue.
2. The tooltip states Eviscerate at rank 8 will inflict 888-984 damage. Players expressed concern that the actual damage is usually lower. This is a due to the stand armor reduction based on the target's armor value, and is a normal function of melee combat.
3. Why does an Eviscerate miss use up all 35 energy, instead of a reduced amount? All finishing moves use up the full amount of energy without using up combo points, and only opening moves get the reduced energy consumption.
Poisons breaking on port
While the developers would very much like to allow poisons to remain intact when you port (enter/exit instance, teleport, travel between continents), this feature is not currently planned for implementation due to a technical limitation with temporary item enchantments. We do want to reevaluate this issue at a later time, but no change is planned for the time being.
Damage Over Time (DOTs)
Rogues have the use of several DOT attacks: Garrote, Rupture, and Deadly Poison. These DOTs are very powerful, and are useful throughout the life of a Rogue until level 60, when Rogue direct damage attacks begin to outpace DOTs in damage output. This is an issue the dev team would like to review, though there is no current plan to change how these abilities current work.
Thrown skill
Rogues have the use of multiple ranged attack weapons, but are most closely identified with the throwing knife. However, very few Rogues actively use their Thrown skill due to the fact that the other ranged attack disciplines are more useful. Guns, bows, and crossbows can all be carried for additional stats, not to mention they provide higher DPS. At this time, the devs are looking into this issue, but have no definite timeline for change. The reason is that Rogues can and do use other ranged attack skills effectively, and for now, this is a wishlist item.[ post edited by Tyren ]
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=485255&p=#post485255 | Poster: Tyren at 8/6/2005 8:41:57 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Rogue developer feedback take 2 |
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Q u o t e:
Few more ways of fighting a warrior. As of now combat rogues have it real easy and mostly dagger rogues have the hardest time with them.
Rogues once out of stealth are now warriors with leather armor and can't do much in AV as we just get destroyed almost instantly.
And possibly more ways of escaping in Mass pvp not 1vs1.
And of course coming out of stealth from a earthbind totem, warriors shouts really makes no sense at all.
PvP in WoW is based on a rock-scissor-paper model. Warriors are the rock to the Rogue scissors.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=485255&p=#post485287 | Poster: Tyren at 8/6/2005 8:42:21 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Rogue developer feedback take 2 |
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Q u o t e:
First and foremost.
Fix/complete the Ravenholdt Manor quest...
It's been broken/unfinished forever.
This line of quests is being worked on.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=485255&p=#post485288 | Poster: Tyren at 8/6/2005 8:48:50 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Rogue developer feedback take 2 |
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Q u o t e:
Clear and thoughtful. Ok
Straight up. In end game instances, it is not viable to be a sword rogue anymore. We do not do the kind of damage as our dagger counterparts. This is not a complaint or anything, but I LOVE my sword rogue and flat out despise playing the dagger style.
This being said, in order to play end game content and fulfill my "role" in the group, I have been forced to respec to daggers. Simply put, dagger dps is far greater than sword dps. If this was intended, then by all means keep it that way.
As it stands, sword rogues do have their place. In lower end instances we are able to shine. However, in MC, our usefulness goes out the window due to the fact that the best aspects of a sword rogue are a sustained ability to continue dealing damage over the course of time. In MC, often rogues are considered "2d class citizens" and are forced to heal themselves. Because of this, sword rogues are unable to compete because we lack the burst damage necessary to ping away for a short while, get out of combat, heal, then come back and repeat. As such, sword dps is severely limited and we are unable to fulfill our role in MC...dps dealer
I could go into the mathematical side of this to further elaborate, but I trust that my point has been made and that further examples are unnecessary.
Now, there is one other aspect that I would request the devs look into. As it stands, Imp. sap is very far up the Sub tree and is unavailable to many of the higher damage rogue builds. This includes virtually any sword build, and most high damage dagger builds. The fact is that this is a VERY useful talent and is necessary for rogue viability in virtually any non-endgame instance to be run 5 man with a rogue in attendance. If a rogue lacks this skill, often the group cannot simply "make do." The group is toast because it lacks solid crowd control and usually cannot effectively handle 4 mobs without significant losses (this is truly evident in 5 man settings). So, I would simply ask that imp. sap be moved down in the chain so that it can be utilized as an option for more rogue builds and improve our overall utility in virtually all settings.
Those are the two big things that I have experienced as difficulties with the rogue class lately. Thx for your time.
Buffing dagger specced rogues was definitely intended. The Ambush/Backstab model was enhanced to address to differentiate rogues from warriors, a very frequent request from rogues.
But the point about Imp. Sap requiring sacrificing DPS is an interesting point, and one I'll bring up to the dev. team.[ post edited by Tyren ]
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=485255&p=#post485294 | Poster: Tyren at 8/6/2005 8:41:57 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Rogue developer feedback take 2 *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Few more ways of fighting a warrior. As of now combat rogues have it real easy and mostly dagger rogues have the hardest time with them.
Rogues once out of stealth are now warriors with leather armor and can't do much in AV as we just get destroyed almost instantly.
And possibly more ways of escaping in Mass pvp not 1vs1.
And of course coming out of stealth from a earthbind totem, warriors shouts really makes no sense at all.
PvP in WoW is based on a rock-scissor-paper model. Warriors are the rock to the Rogue scissors.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=485255&p=#post485287 | Poster: Tyren at 8/6/2005 8:42:21 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Rogue developer feedback take 2 *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
First and foremost.
Fix/complete the Ravenholdt Manor quest...
It's been broken/unfinished forever.
This line of quests is being worked on.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=485255&p=#post485288 | Poster: Tyren at 8/6/2005 8:48:50 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Rogue developer feedback take 2 *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Clear and thoughtful. Ok
Straight up. In end game instances, it is not viable to be a sword rogue anymore. We do not do the kind of damage as our dagger counterparts. This is not a complaint or anything, but I LOVE my sword rogue and flat out despise playing the dagger style.
This being said, in order to play end game content and fulfill my "role" in the group, I have been forced to respec to daggers. Simply put, dagger dps is far greater than sword dps. If this was intended, then by all means keep it that way.
As it stands, sword rogues do have their place. In lower end instances we are able to shine. However, in MC, our usefulness goes out the window due to the fact that the best aspects of a sword rogue are a sustained ability to continue dealing damage over the course of time. In MC, often rogues are considered "2d class citizens" and are forced to heal themselves. Because of this, sword rogues are unable to compete because we lack the burst damage necessary to ping away for a short while, get out of combat, heal, then come back and repeat. As such, sword dps is severely limited and we are unable to fulfill our role in MC...dps dealer
I could go into the mathematical side of this to further elaborate, but I trust that my point has been made and that further examples are unnecessary.
Now, there is one other aspect that I would request the devs look into. As it stands, Imp. sap is very far up the Sub tree and is unavailable to many of the higher damage rogue builds. This includes virtually any sword build, and most high damage dagger builds. The fact is that this is a VERY useful talent and is necessary for rogue viability in virtually any non-endgame instance to be run 5 man with a rogue in attendance. If a rogue lacks this skill, often the group cannot simply "make do." The group is toast because it lacks solid crowd control and usually cannot effectively handle 4 mobs without significant losses (this is truly evident in 5 man settings). So, I would simply ask that imp. sap be moved down in the chain so that it can be utilized as an option for more rogue builds and improve our overall utility in virtually all settings.
Those are the two big things that I have experienced as difficulties with the rogue class lately. Thx for your time.
Buffing dagger specced rogues was definitely intended. The Ambush/Backstab model was enhanced to address to differentiate rogues from warriors, a very frequent request from rogues.
But the point about Imp. Sap requiring sacrificing DPS is an interesting point, and one I'll bring up to the dev. team.[ post edited by Tyren ]
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=485255&p=#post485294 |
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