Poster: Overen at 4/14/2006 8:21:57 AM PDT
Subject: Drysc and Coreiel - please take a moment |
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Drysc (and to a good extent you, too, Coreiel), I wanted to give you some explanation as to why the rogue class, in general, are so quick to jump on anything you say here. This is more or less an attempt to get you both to understand the amount of frustration that some (most) members of the rogue community experience. This is not a whine to get any particular thing fixed but more of a "Please don't take the negativity too personally, it's not directed at you, please don't abandon us" sort of deal. ;)
Basically, in the beginning, the rogue class was a ton of fun. I won't go into the hows and whys because this isn't what this post is about. Suffice to say it was a blast playing a rogue. In PvP I killed and I died depending on how I played my character. In PvE I was always ahead of the curve in dps, no other class came close. I justified this to myself that this was perfect because of the unidimensionality of the rogue class.
It went on this way for a few months and then Tyren reared his ugly head here. This was the beginnings of many rogues' hostility towards the blue aura. He more or less told us that he thought we were fine, or even too good, and under his direction the rogue class took a huge plummet in both fun and usefulness. As our DPS and survivability dropped, other classes' DPS and ability to find, neutralize and kill us increased … up to the point where it was no longer much fun playing the class.
All the while this was going on, we came here to see posts like "We're not overhauling the rogue class" staring us in the face. With every patch came more and more nerfs and more and more bugs. The rogue community quickly began to feel like the lepers of the world of warcraft… nobody was looking out for us, nobody cared if we had numerous bugs, nobody even noticed. While this may seem like I'm dripping with overdramatic slime, so to speak, this is exactly what was observed by a large number of the community. If you'd like, I can link you to numerous past posts about these bugs, but I suspect you've seen them already so I won't bother unless you'd like me to.
Suffice to say the community developed a fairly strong "Blizzard just doesn't care about the rogue class" mentality. Afterall, none of the CMs had a rogue character (save for Caydiem) and the only CM who occasionally posted here (Caydiem) did not understand the class at all, still being stuck in the mindset of playing a level 45 rogue. The posts that she did make here were either "The class is fine because I <insert untrue statement>" or "I painted my cat blue and now he's a smurfcat, giggle giggle".
This was all over the course of a year, the majority of the time the game has been live.
Now, fast forward two or three months to Drysc and Coreiel posting here. Rather than embrace you right away like I wished the community would have done, the past distrust of all things blue where it applied to rogues reared its ugly head. I, personally, would rather work with both of you to solve the issues that have plague the community. The numerous bugs, for instance, like the seal fate and vanish issues (I haven't even seen the vanish issue addressed) are crippling to the class in many elements and yet I'm betting they'll persist at least 2-3 more weeks. (Which is still better than it has been in the past where these sorts of bugs would persist for 3+ months without any blue interaction).
I have not seen any other class end up with nearly the amount of horrendous bugs that persist the length of which the rogue class's do. I suspect this is partly due to the rogue community's rejection of all things blue. I would like to try and fix that here and now. I would personally like to start a real dialogue between the rogue community and both of you.
Call it what you will, I'm just nearing the breaking point of my desire to continue playing a game where such issues are so casually disregarded. (I'm not saying that's the case right now, but given hindsight it will quite honestly take a while to really get out of that mindset). Rather than simply give up on something I've put so much time into, however, I'd like to help rectify it.
I hope you can read this and understand why, at times, you might be met with some hostility from the rogues.
I'd also like to issue you a challenge. Stick with this community. Help us in the way that other CMs have helped other classes, communicate with us … make friends with the community despite the often times harsh language. There are good people here most definitely and people that welcome your interaction with us.
In return I will make an honest attempt to believe when you say things are being looked at. I will attempt to not treat either of you ill because of past treatment from blue posters. I will gladly help out with any request or information you may have that will help fix even the slightest of issues with the class.
Thanks for reading this.
http://ctprofiles.net/7088
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=1053221&p=#post1053221 | | | Poster: Drysc at 4/14/2006 2:47:48 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Drysc and Coreiel - please take a moment |
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There is a certain amount of hostility that I expect regardless of what forum I am in, but I do appreciate you taking the time to try to explain some of the background for your particular cases.
I don't appreciate negative comments being made about other CMs, or the assumptions made that their presence was in some way coercing a 'fall of the class'. Part of our job is to present condensed feedback to the developers, through that important issues can be related. The information we present will not (and does not) translate into direct or immediate changes to the game. I wish I had that much power, but I don't. The now infamous saying "We're not overhauling the class" I believe still holds true, but I don't believe that should be taken as a negative, or a limitation as to what is able to change once the review comes.
I realize there have been periods of frustration, and I will account for your words as simply that, frustration. I don't think you need to explain yourself, or attempt to 'make me happy' to keep me here. If you are discussing issues intelligently and appropriately, then I will hear you, and understand your concerns.
The content of your post is nothing that will drive me off, or cause me to harbor a vendetta against the class, or the posters here (well, maybe some of you). From just reading the posts here I can see that it is a generally enjoyable and helpful class-community. I don't expect that to change, despite what issues may arise.
I realize I am the new kid on the block (oh oh oooOOooh), and it's going to take some time for everyone to get to know me, understand my personality, and sense of humor. Hopefully I don't rub too many of you the wrong way.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=1053221&p=#post1053940 | Poster: Drysc at 4/14/2006 6:36:17 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Drysc and Coreiel - please take a moment |
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Zushiba (and others), I understand you feel that we have (as CMs) wronged you at some point, and I can accept that as being your view. Information is always going to conflict with someone's personal interests or their outlook on the situation. If you don't want to have hope, you don't have to. If you don't think the class is fun, then I'm not going to try to persuade you. You make the decisions on what level you wish to accept my presence, and your own involvement within the game, nothing I can say in a few posts will change that, and I don't expect it to.
I want to quote a few specific parts of your reply, and offer specific responses, I hope that is ok with you.
Q u o t e:
We are not so naive as to believe that personallity do not play a part in everything a person does.
I would never presume to think, or propose that.
Q u o t e:
That the CM that makes no bones about how much he dislikes the class either directly or indirectly is going to be able to represent US will be able to do it without his own agenda bleeding through?
Sorry but it just doesn't work that way.
I think you may have misunderstood my original post, but my intention was to relate that despite our personal outlook, we are not designers, we are communication devices. If I had an agenda, there would almost literally be no way for me to stop the flow of information so completely as to stop the advancement, or cause the fall, of a class.
Q u o t e:
Showing yourself a bit more on occaisions other than locking topics and threatening to ban people for making jokes would go a long way.
I have locked exactly 1 thread here, out of the (I count 13 currently) posts that I have made in this specific forum.
Q u o t e:
You're not starting out on a great foot, what with the threatening to ban people for joke'n around and all but perhaps if you were to show that you are listening rather than just prodding people to post correctly then its all good.
I won't fault you for attempting to vilify me multiple times using the same material. I can at least comprehend your past experiences and where that may leave you now. I don't expect to be "The Rogue CM", or be commended for doing anything beyond what I am already here to do.
What I do expect, is for this forum to continue to be a discussion of the rogue class, to continue to be a place where a community of users experiencing the game in a similar way can congregate.
Hopefully I can jump in every now and then and say "Hi", collect some feedback, and maybe have some information available to give you. I think that sounds reasonable.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=1053221&p=#post1054181 |
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