Poster: Aewyn at 12/28/2005 1:45:11 PM PST
Subject: Complain about the Devs, not Cay |
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Stop giving Cay a hard time. It's not her fault that the Devs don't want to listen to us. At least she is reporting what is going on, which is a hell of a lot better than we had in the past. When we had no idea if anyone was even paying attention at all.
At least we know that she is, and that the devs are getting our feedback... although they continue to ignore it. If anything we should be pissed at the Devs, not the CM. She is just a messenger. "Don't kill the Messenger"
Trust me, I'm just as pissed as anybody else about some of the stuff they did, or did not fix. But I know it's not Cay's fault, and honestly, I'm glad she is here at least telling us what is going on. Instead of being in the dark as we have been in the past.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=756912&p=#post756912 | | | Poster: Caydiem at 12/28/2005 2:00:45 PM PST
Subject: Re: Complain about the Devs, not Cay |
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Tyu: wowcmfeedback@blizzard.com. This goes directly to my supervisor, and is the place to send both positive and negative feedback regarding the Community Team.
That said, while I am occasionally "smarmy", I am never intentionally condescending, and I apologize if what I've said lately has struck you as such. What I have attempted to be is straight with you. I tend to use an inordinately large number of words to say things; in an attempt to level with you and speak with you as an adult, I've cut that out, and have been honest with you in every regard. I understand that some people expect the large barrage of words and are less than happy with a blunter approach, but I am of the belief that you deserve a simple, mature approach to this situation.
Now, others have decided that a mature approach was not best for them, personally, and I have had to act, regrettably, but I do hope they don't take it as a personal assault. I understand that frustrations run deep and tempers run hot, particularly around this time of year when real life only adds to the pile. However, there is a code of conduct to enforce, and if I can't read your message clearly because it's obscured by paragraph after paragraph of destructive ranting, I'm going to take action and move on to someone a little calmer. (And please, note that this is not directed towards you personally, Tyu; the "you" used is general.)
In short, I've done what I can to treat the Paladin community as mature individuals. I'm sorry if you read some meaning into my words that wasn't there; being condescending was not, in any way, intentional.
My heart is locked away in Glastonbury Tor.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=756912&p=#post757000 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/28/2005 2:05:58 PM PST
Subject: Re: Complain about the Devs, not Cay |
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Q u o t e:
Hey, Cay, as a mod who reads this forum alot, is there any chance of bannage on the obvious alt-lowbie trolls that hang here non-stop, like ellia and phanna?
All posters are judged under the Code of Conduct equally. Being an "alt-lowbie" is not against the Code of Conduct, and they do contribute constructively to conversations. Now, they may be a dissenting voice to your own opinions at times, but that isn't against policy, either.
I monitor all posts, including theirs, and will act if need be.
My heart is locked away in Glastonbury Tor.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=756912&p=#post757025 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/28/2005 2:11:53 PM PST
Subject: Re: Complain about the Devs, not Cay |
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Q u o t e:
The only thing I have to comment on is the "Civil Discourse" thread that was pretty much a slap in the face to this forum. I have seen much worse behavior on other class forums, yet they got no "Quiet down kiddies, or no dessert for you" threads. I mean, every cookie cutter LUE-esque spam message were invented on the shaman boards.
Actually, the Hunter forum received a far more curt and no-nonsense message regarding the Code of Conduct during their review. Their forum was, in fact, worse. :P
My heart is locked away in Glastonbury Tor.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=756912&p=#post757054 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/28/2005 2:29:00 PM PST
Subject: Re: Complain about the Devs, not Cay |
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Q u o t e:
No, semi-skilled trolls never break the code of conduct, because that would keep them from doing what they love, trolling.
However we are all smart people here and we all know that trolls provoke real dissent without adding anything constructive by staying within guidelines and yet trolling for negative or inflammatory replies. Once that is acheived they continue to escalate a meaningless argument, from an unassailable position, unassailable because it states nothing concrete, can never be tested or measured and can be easily changed at will to suit the next flame.
If the net result is posting with the intent to incite, and that is all the poster does here, can you not simply apply reason and perception, call a troll a troll and apply bannage?
If they step over the line, action will be taken. However, among other things, I have noted Phanna and Ellia participating in the conversation, challenging the status quo, and being an intelligent and stalwart opposition to the Paladin behemoth mentality that actually improves feedback threads, as said challenges are normally responded to with further reasoning and better explanation by the original posters or other paladins. They are, overall, improving the quality of this forum. If they cease to do so, then I may call it inciting the masses, but until that time, I am of the opinion -- as a longtime forum moderator and participant -- that this forum is better with them than without them.
My heart is locked away in Glastonbury Tor.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=756912&p=#post757145 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/28/2005 2:37:34 PM PST
Subject: Re: Complain about the Devs, not Cay |
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Q u o t e:
Then why do you suspend/ban people for "spamming" when the CoC clearly calls for just "a warning"?
Folks here came up with a catch phrase to illuminate people who were trolling (Ironic isn't it, that players are banned from the forums because they come up with a way to deal with trolls since Blizzard wont?)
Those bans are temporary and not on your account record. They are also necessary, as the majority of people who get a thread deleted (and yes, many a time a thread warrants deletion rather than a lock) either repost the thread or continually posts about their thread being deleted. The temporary suspension prevents such spam, giving the individual a cool-off period that does not go on their record and allows them to take a step back.
It's a warning, in a very real sense. Speaking as someone who has been just like some of you folks in the past, a well-spoken individual who was extremely passionate about a given subject on an official forum and occasionally stepped over the line in my fervor, a little forced break such as the ones I give did two things for me.
First, it made me rather peevish (to put it mildly) because I was still in the mode of defending my beliefs and the sudden cut off was a shock to my debate-loving mind. (I would spend literally hours arguing design theory. Seriously, folks, I know exactly how you feel.)
After I went through that, however, I'd step back, do something else for the remainder of my unplanned vacation, and when I came back, I had a better perspective on the situation as a whole.
So I apologize if taking you out of the fray is viewed as an affront; I don't mean it to be. It's a simple cooling off period that doesn't go on your account at first. The only people who have received marks against them are the people who have blatantly and repeatedly violated the Code of Conduct for things other than being a little too passionate when discussing their views. I know well the mentality of a forum-goer defending what they believe is right, and I'm not about to give you a permanent mark for caring about where your class goes.
My heart is locked away in Glastonbury Tor.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=756912&p=#post757194 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/28/2005 3:02:00 PM PST
Subject: Re: Complain about the Devs, not Cay |
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Q u o t e:
Cay, please, you couldn't be more wrong.
Just go and read ellia's 13 pages of posts in the last two weeks. Everyone go do this, so you can see what a polite troller looks like.
She doesn't challenge the status quo, she is 100% for it! Her whole point is to incite and then get bans for forum pallies. She talks about bans non-stop in her posts. And how do you feel that one-line responses that can be summed up as "No, you are wrong, child" can be considered constructive in any way, shape or form? They are, overall, trolls, posting reflexively contrarian, vague points in order to do nothing more than feed their egos. This doesn't help paladins in the least, and contributes greatly to our problems with civility in this forum, as well as your problems with image in this forum, as no one here can think well of a CM who actually defends a troll whose whole point is to cause strife in the community.
How can a troll improve feedback....ever?
I am not arguing with you on this matter further, Thews, as this is not the place nor time. If you wish to report an individual for trolling, click the biohazard symbol on their post or eMail wowreportedpost@blizzard.com. I have already given you my stance on the matter, and your post did not change it.
My heart is locked away in Glastonbury Tor.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=756912&p=#post757287 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/28/2005 3:04:14 PM PST
Subject: Re: Complain about the Devs, not Cay |
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Q u o t e:
Quo? Stalwart? Behemoth? Sorry Cay, but I cheated out of Taurahe class.
Owakeri chi sho'wa nechi no po mani Taurahe, nahe, kashu kee.
:P
My heart is locked away in Glastonbury Tor.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=756912&p=#post757297 | Poster: Caydiem at 12/28/2005 3:14:37 PM PST
Subject: Re: Complain about the Devs, not Cay |
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Q u o t e:
belive me on several posts I have and I recived nothing no replys to me and the people who posted them were replying regularly without bans. I would like an explanation as to why?
The moderators do not reply to the people who report it. They take action as they deem necessary. If you have reported posts and/or posters, and no action has been taken, this means either 1) your report has not yet been read and acted upon, or 2) the report was read and it was determined that the post in question was not a violation. Also, people do get warnings, and they are eMailed to the individual in question. We do have a ladder. It does not go straight to permanent ban.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
My heart is locked away in Glastonbury Tor.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=756912&p=#post757359 |
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