Poster: Mahou at 2/10/2006 5:59:44 PM PST
Subject: Mages do need work, but not that much. |
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Tseric wrote :
"First off, your subject and topic have poor language. Next time, consider using more neutral or un-biased language when trying to make a point.
Second, the sky is not falling. I can't believe you just said this:
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Q u o t e:
We need better gear, more gear, changes to our spells and fixed talent tress. Better survivability and fixed resist rates.
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So...you want more stuff, more spells, more talents, more HP and more DPS. Well, you're going to have to get in line because that's what everybody wants. Your efforts to talk down every aspect of your class are not convincing me of what the real issues are.
I thought this kind of unfocused ranting was done with the departure of a certain "persona non grata".
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Golden crispy! Bad guys are history! "
Tseric I understand your point in that these are things all classes want. Yet I beg you to realize that mages are in dire need of looking at in comparison to any remaining classes. I have a decent amount of tier 1 and 2 gear and I will say that mages are still a very good class, but overall we could use a slight damage boost, a rehash on our talent trees(due to several areas being uneeded or in need of revising), and a way to remove aggro. The survivability of mages is good yet only if the mage has a quick response, yet we could use some help in that many classes can kill us within 2-3 seconds of making contact.[ post edited by Mahou ]
Mahou-60 mage Stormrage
Kytos- 41 warrior Stormrage
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Poster: Tseric at 2/10/2006 6:22:34 PM PST
Subject: Re: Mages do need work, but not that much. |
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Q u o t e:
and a way to remove aggro
This is clearly stated in the class description on the website as one of the challenges of playing a mage. To convince the designers to give you aggro-wiping abilities would require the most undeniably heavy and razor sharp reason ever created for game design. You would have a better chance at getting more straight damage buffs, which they don't really feel convinced the class needs, either.
Understand, the damage potential (not even considering) ZHC/ToEP is greater than the majority of other classes, barring rogues. Mages out-damage everyone; it can be done. Convincing the designers that you need a damage boost is saying that you have no opportunities to acheive strong damage in general, which is simply not the case.
As a mage, I have vastly outdamaged other classes in only blue gear. I have vastly outdamaged other mages. I have seen it happen on more than ten occasions. I find it quite easy to see a dramatic shift in damage output with a simple change of spell line-up or tactic. I have been in groups watching mages compete for top damage and one of them will fall short by thousands of points. Why does that happen? Is the class broken? They are doing their best right?
I consider that to be an important and relevant factor. No, I am not telling anyone to L2P, I am simply stating what I have observed. There is a lot of play between a good mage and a great mage.
Golden crispy! Bad guys are history!
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=697921&p=#post697941 |
Poster: Tseric at 2/10/2006 6:27:51 PM PST
Subject: Re: Mages do need work, but not that much. |
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Q u o t e:
but I would still like an aggro wipe / invisibility / elementals / unlocking back, no matter what you say.
I know, I know. You probably always will and there is nothing I can do about that.
Golden crispy! Bad guys are history!
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Poster: Tseric at 2/10/2006 6:36:52 PM PST
Subject: Re: Mages do need work, but not that much. |
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Q u o t e:
And since when did class discriptions mean ANYTHING!?
When I made my mage the discription said we were the highest dps in the game...
Well you guys deleted that discription. So here is a fix for that:
Delete it!
So what if it was deleted? You still didn't address my second sentence, which is really the more important one. Your arguement can basically be boiled down to "I want it just because". There is no clear reason why mages should deal more damage than they do now. That is all that aggro-wiping is.
Golden crispy! Bad guys are history!
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=697921&p=#post697966 |
Poster: Tseric at 2/10/2006 6:43:50 PM PST
Subject: Re: Mages do need work, but not that much. |
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Q u o t e:
These classes have the same output as our damage.
Why do you have to make me feel like I'm being totally contrary?
No. They. Don't.
A Hunter or a Warlock could maybe give a competitive damage output given proper gearing and situation. Highly situational. It's the same as saying that all mages 2-shot everyone with ZHC/ToEP. Hyperbole.
Golden crispy! Bad guys are history!
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Poster: Tseric at 2/10/2006 6:45:36 PM PST
Subject: Re: Mages do need work, but not that much. |
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Q u o t e:
Mage DPS is FINE. Mages don't need any more DPS. NONE. 0.
What mages need are better survivability. Give us back some sort of invisibility that wipes aggro and survivability is no longer an issue.
Survivability I can agree with. I will definitely have this as topic one when the designers are focusing more on the mage.
Golden crispy! Bad guys are history!
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Poster: Tseric at 2/10/2006 7:41:10 PM PST
Subject: Re: Mages do need work, but not that much. |
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Q u o t e:
As a Mage, I find it quite easy to do great damage, if the circumstances are right.
The only complaints I would have are as follows:
The casting bar -- It is very often that I find myself unable to get a single Fireball (Rank 11) spell off when taking damage -- i.g. Hunter pet, Rogue, anything that has a hit speed of 1.8 or less. Even with the Burning Soul 3/3 Talent, it is all too common that my 3300 HP doesn't permit me to get the cast off.
Talents in the Arcane tree -- I know it has been said before, but I will say again. Improved Counterspell, Instant Arcane Explosion, and Evocation are considered must have spells, almost forcing a Mage to put at least 18 points in the Arcane tree. These spells should be either trained spells, moved up in the Talent tree, or require less points to have.
Resistances -- Yeah sure it is being worked on as far as gear with AQ up and running, but it needs to be worked into the talent trees, just like the Arcane Focus talent.
These are the only problems I have with playing the Mage. I am not suggesting any invisibility, just a few changes that would considerably better the class.
Thank you, Nordo. That is good, reasoned feedback. You stay on-topic with specific points, making concise comments. This is something that can be easily discussed with others (read: the designers). You have exemplified the purpose of these boards with your post.
Currently, I would only say that transferring talents into core-class spells is not something the designers do lightly, although it does have precedent.
Golden crispy! Bad guys are history!
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=697921&p=#post698088 |
Poster: Tseric at 2/10/2006 6:22:34 PM PST
Subject: Re: Mages do need work, but not that much. *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
and a way to remove aggro
This is clearly stated in the class description on the website as one of the challenges of playing a mage. To convince the designers to give you aggro-wiping abilities would require the most undeniably heavy and razor sharp reason ever created for game design. You would have a better chance at getting more straight damage buffs, which they don't really feel convinced the class needs, either.
Understand, the damage potential (not even considering ZHC/ToEP) is greater than the majority of other classes, barring rogues. Mages out-damage everyone; it can be done. Convincing the designers that you need a damage boost is saying that you have no opportunities to acheive strong damage in general, which is simply not the case.
As a mage, I have vastly outdamaged other classes in only blue gear. I have vastly outdamaged other mages. I have seen it happen on more than ten occasions. I find it quite easy to see a dramatic shift in damage output with a simple change of spell line-up or tactic. I have been in groups watching mages compete for top damage and one of them will fall short by thousands of points. Why does that happen? Is the class broken? They are doing their best right?
I consider that to be an important and relevant factor. No, I am not telling anyone to L2P, I am simply stating what I have observed. There is a lot of play between a good mage and a great mage.
EDIT- lazy parenthesis[ post edited by Tseric ]
Golden crispy! Bad guys are history!
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