Poster: Blight at 11/10/2005 8:15:22 PM PST
Subject: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth |
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Hey fellow mages...I was over at the mage union forum and found to my disgust that they perm banned Tessera.
She wanted to let Tseric know why she isn't responding to his posts. I am sure he is aware of the situation already though.
This is pathetic. Posts are getting deleted, mages are staging protests and unions, and now people are being banned.
I think maybe it is time to take firmer action if this is the kind of representative that Blizzard employs. I haven't seen any post on here that Tessera made that would warrant this, have you??[ post edited by Blight ]
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post502582 |
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Poster: Tseric at 11/10/2005 10:59:38 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth |
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All that has occurred in regards to this situation, was a clear, repeated breach of the Code of Conduct. Any attempt to construe this in some sort of conspiratorial light is not only misguided, but completely without fact.
Sadly, the real events are rather mundane. I for one am rather disappointed with this turn of events.
I get angry playing games.
True/False?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post502854 |
Poster: Fangtooth at 11/10/2005 11:04:28 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth |
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I will confirm what Tseric has said. The user was warned for violating the Code of Conduct, and then violated the Code of Conduct again. Doing so is something that we do not tolerate.
With that being said, it was not me who was the dealer of discipline in this case.
Oh snap!
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post502875 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/10/2005 11:25:12 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth |
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It was not harassing and defamatory language. It was simply obscene.
Fatbot, if you are going to point fingers for horrible customer service, please base your claims on something more than hear-say and conjecture. Let's not make this situation anymore unpleasant than it already is.
Also, I'm not in customer service, I'm in Public Relations. There are distinct and important differences.
It's so hard to win, when there's so much to lose.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post502943 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/10/2005 11:40:31 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth |
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If you must know, it involved telling someone to do something extremely improper involving orifices and an elephant.
This isn't something we just "plucked" because she was a "troublemaker". It was a clear and unmistakable violation of policy, and the individual in question was not given any special treatment (positive or negative) based on what he/she was attempting to accomplish.
I am posting this because Tseric went home.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post502974 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/10/2005 11:50:08 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth |
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Q u o t e:
All i got to say is wow. This is certaintly outrageous, mages finally gets a spokeman to represent us and now Tess gets banned. How can we speak our mind when the repercussion will certainly get us banned and suppress. If this is a tactic to scare and silence us, i can guarantee you it will not work. Us mages will continue to speak and voice ourselves, even if it means repercussion we will find a way to be heard.
Please read the entire thread.
If anything, we were rather disappointed by this turn of events. Tseric himself said to me that the ban couldn't have happened at a worse time.
Look at the facts. Tseric stayed up all night chatting with you, seeking a compromise, attempting to work with you -- and Tess was a part of that process. He was working with her, attempting to see eye to eye. His last post was at 7:30AM. That's dedication to the cause.
Now why on earth, after staying up all night seeking understanding and common ground with the mage community, would he ban the primary individual all mages were rallying behind? The simple answer is he wouldn't, unless there was an action taken that was grossly against policy. That is precisely what occurred.
Incidentally, no one who has posted here thus far was the one to issue the ban. Our moderators -- people far, far removed from this argument -- are the ones who carried out the punishment.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post503010 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/10/2005 11:50:08 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
All i got to say is wow. This is certaintly outrageous, mages finally gets a spokeman to represent us and now Tess gets banned. How can we speak our mind when the repercussion will certainly get us banned and suppress. If this is a tactic to scare and silence us, i can guarantee you it will not work. Us mages will continue to speak and voice ourselves, even if it means repercussion we will find a way to be heard.
Please read the entire thread.
If anything, we were rather disappointed by this turn of events. Tseric himself said to me that the ban couldn't have happened at a worse time.
Look at the facts. Tseric stayed up all night chatting with you, seeking a compromise, attempting to work with you -- and Tess was a part of that process. He was working with her, attempting to see eye to eye. His last post was at 7:30AM. That's dedication to the cause.
Now why on earth, after staying up all night seeking understanding and common ground with the mage community, would he ban the primary individual all mages were rallying behind? The simple answer is he wouldn't, unless there was an action taken that was grossly against policy. That is precisely what occurred.
Incidentally, no one who has posted here thus far was the one to issue the ban. Our moderators -- people far, far removed from this argument -- are the ones who carried out the punishment.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post503010 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/11/2005 12:04:35 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth |
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Q u o t e:
hey dude, do you see the irony in doing exactly what i asked of the CM's? to EXPLAIN the situation instead of using lawyerspeak?
i'm not gonna hunt down someone's entire posting history across all the forums to look for clues as to whether or not a banning was justified. not that it would do any good anyway. it's their servers and they can ban whoever they want (its always amusing when people cite Free Speech to say whatever they want on private forums).
what i'm saying is that for them to have ANY credibility whatsoever, they need to be more forthcoming with information. Someone gets themselves banned, after being thought of as a "union leader", is it too much to say "yeah, he went and cussed people out too often and got banned for it.. his fault, nothing we can do about it"? I mean really..
like.. that BS on the general forums about "we can't say anything about actions taken". BULLS**T. You get spammed ingame from a level one alt giving you a website to go to and how much it'll cost to purchase gold, you DESERVE to know if they wind up getting banned for it. By breaking the TOS, they've given up any expectation of privacy, once judgement has been given. Its ludicrous to think otherwise, since this is how conspiracy theories START!
Do any of you really think that they're doing ANYTHING about gold farmers?
/edit for speling
I know precisely what happened. However, I would like to ask you a question.
If you received a permanent ban for something rather embarassing, and other posters asked why you had been punished... would you like us to break our confidentiality policy to assauge their worries, exposing the potentially-mortifying reason for all to see?
I know I wouldn't. That's why Tseric and I are not, in fact, breaking the confidentiality policy. You've been given the facts, but I'll add one more to the best of my knowledge. Here we are:
1) The individual was banned for obscenity/vulgarity.
2) The comment in question regarded an order having to do with one's orifices and a bull elephant.
3) This was on the Kargath forums -- our forums, not an outside source. We don't ban for that. He can say whatever he pleases on his website.
4) The individual in question did have a history of breaking forum policy -- not on the Mage forum, but rather in other forums, such as the Kargath Realm forum.
Yes, we're aware that there are some foul posts in the realm forums. Our forum moderators are doing what they can to clean them up... which is precisely why this thread exists in the first place. Please don't complain that we never clean up the realm forums and blame us for banning Tessera in the same breath.
I hope that's "explanation" enough for you, because I cannot go into further detail. I'm already pushing it as-is.
I am sorry if you disagree with our confidentiality policy, but please understand that we do need to consider all of our customers. I am sorry, but you do not "deserve" to know what happened to any individual you reported. That brings far, far more problems than it would benefit.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post504512 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/11/2005 12:11:06 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth |
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Q u o t e:
Child molesters are FORCED to register. Every banned user should have a page that lists all of his offenses. Who cares if they're embarrassing, if you said it, you deserve the reprocussions. Its not that much to ask, I mean, we ARE paying you per month.
And not once in the EULA does it say that users are entitled to know the punishments of others. What your payment provides you is clearly outlined there.
Such a system would cause more problems than it solves. This is a game, not a potentially-traumatizing -- or even life-threatening -- situation such as your analogy.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post504543 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/11/2005 12:15:37 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth |
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Q u o t e:
I didnt say it was life threatening, but it is game-altering, sort of.
Putting out a list keeps idiots from coming up with conspiracy thoeries. It gets rid of all that 'omg you guys are !@#@s' crap.
Obviously there HAS to be a list of all the banned users, why not just list that, along with the reasons they were banned.
Gamefaqs has one, although they do not reveal it to the public (and gamefaqs is a horrlbe site). They could though.
edit: I cant say na zi? The word itself isnt bad. Its the idiots with the guns. (PS: nerf tiger tanks)
I'll be blunt: what you ask for will not happen.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post504559 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/11/2005 12:24:48 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth |
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Q u o t e:
Well, thanks for being blunt. Guess its better than saying we'll get invisibilty 'sometime.' Can I ask why though? I mean, is it the cost of it, or some privacy reason, or just the unwillingness of you guys to give out that info?
PS: thanks for the responses, if I come off as being pushy/a jackass/sarcastic I'm not trying to be
Privacy, primarily. Remember that these people are customers, paying for a service -- even if they've made violations, there's a chance that they have not been severe enough to warrant a permanent removal. Now, honestly, would you continue to pay for a service where all your past transgressions were listed for all to see, bringing constant mockery down upon your head? Who would want to play with an individual like that? Alienating customers rather goes against common and business sense.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post504597 |
Poster: Tseric at 11/10/2005 10:59:38 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth *edited post* |
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All that has occurred in regards to this situation, was a clear, repeated breach of the Code of Conduct. Any attempt to construe this in some sort of conspiratorial light is not only misguided, but completely without fact.
Sadly, the real events are rather mundane. I for one am rather disappointed with this turn of events.
I get angry playing games.
True/False?
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post502854 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/10/2005 11:40:31 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth *edited post* |
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If you must know, it involved telling someone to do something extremely improper involving orifices and an elephant.
This isn't something we just "plucked" because she was a "troublemaker". It was a clear and unmistakable violation of policy, and the individual in question was not given any special treatment (positive or negative) based on what he/she was attempting to accomplish.
I am posting this because Tseric went home.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post502974 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/10/2005 11:50:08 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
All i got to say is wow. This is certaintly outrageous, mages finally gets a spokeman to represent us and now Tess gets banned. How can we speak our mind when the repercussion will certainly get us banned and suppress. If this is a tactic to scare and silence us, i can guarantee you it will not work. Us mages will continue to speak and voice ourselves, even if it means repercussion we will find a way to be heard.
Please read the entire thread.
If anything, we were rather disappointed by this turn of events. Tseric himself said to me that the ban couldn't have happened at a worse time.
Look at the facts. Tseric stayed up all night chatting with you, seeking a compromise, attempting to work with you -- and Tess was a part of that process. He was working with her, attempting to see eye to eye. His last post was at 7:30AM. That's dedication to the cause.
Now why on earth, after staying up all night seeking understanding and common ground with the mage community, would he ban the primary individual all mages were rallying behind? The simple answer is he wouldn't, unless there was an action taken that was grossly against policy. That is precisely what occurred.
Incidentally, no one who has posted here thus far was the one to issue the ban. Our moderators -- people far, far removed from this argument -- are the ones who carried out the punishment.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post503010 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/11/2005 12:04:35 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
hey dude, do you see the irony in doing exactly what i asked of the CM's? to EXPLAIN the situation instead of using lawyerspeak?
i'm not gonna hunt down someone's entire posting history across all the forums to look for clues as to whether or not a banning was justified. not that it would do any good anyway. it's their servers and they can ban whoever they want (its always amusing when people cite Free Speech to say whatever they want on private forums).
what i'm saying is that for them to have ANY credibility whatsoever, they need to be more forthcoming with information. Someone gets themselves banned, after being thought of as a "union leader", is it too much to say "yeah, he went and cussed people out too often and got banned for it.. his fault, nothing we can do about it"? I mean really..
like.. that BS on the general forums about "we can't say anything about actions taken". BULLS**T. You get spammed ingame from a level one alt giving you a website to go to and how much it'll cost to purchase gold, you DESERVE to know if they wind up getting banned for it. By breaking the TOS, they've given up any expectation of privacy, once judgement has been given. Its ludicrous to think otherwise, since this is how conspiracy theories START!
Do any of you really think that they're doing ANYTHING about gold farmers?
/edit for speling
I know precisely what happened. However, I would like to ask you a question.
If you received a permanent ban for something rather embarassing, and other posters asked why you had been punished... would you like us to break our confidentiality policy to assauge their worries, exposing the potentially-mortifying reason for all to see?
I know I wouldn't. That's why Tseric and I are not, in fact, breaking the confidentiality policy. You've been given the facts, but I'll add one more to the best of my knowledge. Here we are:
1) The individual was banned for obscenity/vulgarity.
2) The comment in question regarded an order having to do with one's orifices and a bull elephant.
3) This was on the Kargath forums -- our forums, not an outside source. We don't ban for that. He can say whatever he pleases on his website.
4) The individual in question did have a history of breaking forum policy -- not on the Mage forum, but rather in other forums, such as the Kargath Realm forum.
Yes, we're aware that there are some foul posts in the realm forums. Our forum moderators are doing what they can to clean them up... which is precisely why this thread exists in the first place. Please don't complain that we never clean up the realm forums and blame us for banning Tessera in the same breath.
I hope that's "explanation" enough for you, because I cannot go into further detail. I'm already pushing it as-is.
I am sorry if you disagree with our confidentiality policy, but please understand that we do need to consider all of our customers. I am sorry, but you do not "deserve" to know what happened to any individual you reported. That brings far, far more problems than it would benefit.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post504512 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/11/2005 12:11:06 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Child molesters are FORCED to register. Every banned user should have a page that lists all of his offenses. Who cares if they're embarrassing, if you said it, you deserve the reprocussions. Its not that much to ask, I mean, we ARE paying you per month.
And not once in the EULA does it say that users are entitled to know the punishments of others. What your payment provides you is clearly outlined there.
Such a system would cause more problems than it solves. This is a game, not a potentially-traumatizing -- or even life-threatening -- situation such as your analogy.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post504543 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/11/2005 12:15:37 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
I didnt say it was life threatening, but it is game-altering, sort of.
Putting out a list keeps idiots from coming up with conspiracy thoeries. It gets rid of all that 'omg you guys are !@#@s' crap.
Obviously there HAS to be a list of all the banned users, why not just list that, along with the reasons they were banned.
Gamefaqs has one, although they do not reveal it to the public (and gamefaqs is a horrlbe site). They could though.
edit: I cant say na zi? The word itself isnt bad. Its the idiots with the guns. (PS: nerf tiger tanks)
I'll be blunt: what you ask for will not happen.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post504559 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/11/2005 12:24:48 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tseric - Tessera was banned by Fangtooth *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Well, thanks for being blunt. Guess its better than saying we'll get invisibilty 'sometime.' Can I ask why though? I mean, is it the cost of it, or some privacy reason, or just the unwillingness of you guys to give out that info?
PS: thanks for the responses, if I come off as being pushy/a jackass/sarcastic I'm not trying to be
Privacy, primarily. Remember that these people are customers, paying for a service -- even if they've made violations, there's a chance that they have not been severe enough to warrant a permanent removal. Now, honestly, would you continue to pay for a service where all your past transgressions were listed for all to see, bringing constant mockery down upon your head? Who would want to play with an individual like that? Alienating customers rather goes against common and business sense.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=502582&p=#post504597 |
