Poster: Wika at 5/30/2006 8:35:36 AM PDT
Subject: Tseric- why are mages the ONLY class... |
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Why are mages the ONLY class that get your little lectures about why they can't possibly expect to be improved? I note that when Hunters asked for improvements, Blizz bent over backwards to make them, in Caydiem's words, "A high damage, high survivability" class. When Warlocks complained about PvP, you removed Deathcoil's timer, basically making them Gods. (Imagine if AP had it's timer removed, and still worked with dual trinkets. That'd be roughly comparable to what Locks currently have with Fear/Deathcoil/Felhunters.)
You go on and on about how DPS should be "competitive", but then you give us huge lectures about how armor and survivability can't POSSIBLY be "competitive", because of the "effects on PvE". What, and giving everyone the same (or more) DPS as Mages didn't effect PvE?
It appears to me that you have a list somewhere of rebuttals to every Mage concern- but no comparable list exists for any other class. Mages suggested that Blink should drop Targeting, and there you were, with Mage Lecture #265, telling us that Mages couldn't POSSIBLY get an ability like that. But Rogues and Hunters, that's another story.
Basicially, I'm tired of you treating us differently than every other class. I'm tired of you assuming that every Mage ability is so VASTLY OVERPOWERED that it cannot be allowed to work AT ALL. (Note Blink. Note that every Boss is immune to Chill effects. Note that almost every endgame mob is immune to Counter Spell. Note that Mages have the only CC that heals it's target.)
We point these things out to you, and you ignore us. But heaven forbid that some doofus posts a "Dear Penthouse" message describing how he's personally killed every other player on his server, because you're there in a heartbeat, using it as PROOF INCONTRAVERTABLE that Mages are fine, and probably need yet another nerf, to go along with the Trinket nerf, the AP nerf, the Power Infusion nerf, the ZHC nerf, and the fact that many of the so-called "improved" Review Talents do NOT do the same thing on the Test Server as what you told us they'd do HERE. (Note: "Elemental Precision".)
I fully exepect to be shouted down by the very same Trolls that haunt this board and got us a review that basically amounted to a HUGE burst-damage nerf. Hey, that's fine. But someone needs to still care about the Mage class. I'm just surprised that it's me and not Tseric.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=1009106&p=#post1009106 | | | Poster: Tseric at 5/30/2006 9:53:38 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Tseric- why are mages the ONLY class... |
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Q u o t e:
Mages suggested that Blink should drop Targeting, and there you were, with Mage Lecture #265, telling us that Mages couldn't POSSIBLY get an ability like that.
/sigh
Quoting myself from another thread:
Q u o t e:
I tried to convince the devs that it would be a good idea to get Blink to drop targeting. They didn't like that because they thought that the functionality was to clunky and wouldn't make for smooth gameplay.
My efforts to that end are not done, yet. But, they are putting in more programming time into making the spell work more to what it was originally envisioned. If the new "fix" doesn't work, then it would be back to the drawing board and they might have to make it drop target just for some kind of reliable functionality. We shall see.
You're wrong. Plain and simple. The rest of your post makes similar claims with no real evidence to back them up. You call others names and cite many "cases" without much backing evidence or which are really absurd to begin with.
Q u o t e:
Why are mages the ONLY class that get your little lectures about why they can't possibly expect to be improved?
Where did I say this? Quote or link. This statement is absurd and what's worse, others take it at face value.
Q u o t e:
Note that every Boss is immune to Chill effects.
They are immune to a lot more than that. It affects many classes and is part of encounter balance. This is not an issue of your class being particularly disenfranchised.
Q u o t e:
Note that almost every endgame mob is immune to Counter Spell.
So you are saying that ALMOST EVERY MOB LEVEL 60+ is immune to CS? Shouldn't be hard to provide a list then, right? I mean, that's a big statement you make.
Q u o t e:
Note that Mages have the only CC that heals it's target.
This has been explained to death. If you want to keep arguing with the devs over such a thing, we really are going in circles. I have brought up many points to this. I don't hear many points to counter it, except "it's the only one that does that!"
Q u o t e:
We point these things out to you, and you ignore us.
So, am I lecturing you and providing feedback (or counter-points) to everything you present, or am I ignoring you?
Just because you don't get exactly what you want doesn't mean no one is listening.
Q u o t e:
using it as PROOF INCONTRAVERTABLE that Mages are fine
That's not what I did and you know it. If it was proof incontrovertable, why would I then ask what they would change about the class? The class is fine, right?
I ask them, because they have a positive attitude about it and if pressed for feedback won't go into an emotional tailspin, unlike some others here.
Q u o t e:
and probably need yet another nerf, to go along with the Trinket nerf, the AP nerf, the Power Infusion nerf, the ZHC nerf,
So, you are taking a nerf to another class as a personal nerf. And, what are you referring to when you cite "the Trinket nerf" AND "the ZHC nerf?" Perhaps you should clarify what you are talking about. It sounds like you are citing the same thing twice so your argument has more weight. Clarify, please.
edit - rereading, I suspect you are talking about the stacking disconnect, yes?
Q u o t e:
and the fact that many of the so-called "improved" Review Talents do NOT do the same thing on the Test Server as what you told us they'd do HERE. (Note: "Elemental Precision".)
So, I made an error. Cite specifics and we can resolve it. Or would you rather just use it as ammo for your case about me being a bad person?
Q u o t e:
I fully exepect to be shouted down by the very same Trolls that haunt this board
Here's an exercise for you. Read the rest of this thread. Take note of the people who are basically trying to "call" my response and tell me exactly how I'm going to act. They provide little in the way of REAL feedback. They give up before any response is offered. Getting through to people with that kind of attitude is next to impossible. And yes, I do have a problem with that and as a community manager it falls directly under my responsibilities to deal with such attitudes.
Let me quote some examples for you to make it easy:
Q u o t e:
Why does that surprise you? What make you think Tseric cares in the least about mage troubles?
He dosent play a mage.... YOU do.
Tseric has no interest in what mages get, he simply has a "job" which presumeably involves him reporting our feedback to the devs. No Devs or CM's have mages as their main characters... get used to it.
Q u o t e:
There is no point complaining about it. They don't respect the class or our opinions. I'm just gonna stick it out until a new MMO comes along. Then it's byebye WoW.
Q u o t e:
It's obvious what kind of response you're going to get.
Tseric Says:
"Your just another whiner unhappy with your class why not try another one or get POM? nobody who enjoys the mage class EVER posts on these forums, You're all whiny" /spit
Here's you feeding of the discontent:
Q u o t e:
That does seem to be the way of things around here. Tseric only responds to "easy win" topics. And then he only responds with non-sequitors. For example, he once responded to a 20-page thread about Mage issues with "We can't give you better weapons, because then Warriors would Disarm you." And therein we see Tseric's entire justification for why Warriors get 90 DPS Swords, while Mages get the Mageblade.
Go back and read my comments on weapon slots. Your paraphrasing is grossly inaccurate.
Q u o t e:
We've been screwed over from Day One, and it's not hard to see why.
This is the dominaant attitude of this board that I have been dealing with since I started posting here. I have seen this basic statement more times than I care to recall. Face it, this is the attitude you bring and it affects others. I have watched time and again as new mages have showed up to this board and been driven away by people taking your stance that this is the worst class and has been getting reamed by the devs SINCE DAY ONE.
Q u o t e:
Simple answer = Blizz HATES MAGES
/sigh
I care and I have to work with EVERYONE, devs and players alike. I keep working and trying.
I wish I could say the same for you.[ post edited by Tseric ]
No matter where you go, there you are
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