Poster: Moor at 7/18/2006 2:07:43 PM PDT
Subject: An Issue of Communication |
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For a while, I wanted to post sometime about the 45 min UD Strat run. I ultimately gave up on the post. Later on, I felt compelled to post about Blizzard's refusing to grant previous Rank 14s access to the new Rank 14 weapon sets. Again, I ultimately gave up on that post too. This time, in reading about the new World PvP concept, I again felt compelled to write a post on it. And ultimately I did, because it now occurs to me that what I was going to post about all three of those subjects all ultimately deal with the same thing: the utter lack of communication and understanding between different WoW players and Blizzard themselves.
The problem with WoW is simple: the game has gone off in such divergent ways that the WoW community has been fractured into different factions. There's no WoW community: there's a PvP community a raider community, a hardcore-player community, a casual-player community and frankly, none of them seem willing to see things from the any point of view other than their own. A MMORPG changes over time and develops in ways that the original programmers probably could not conceive of. As such, I cannot blame Blizzard for making a game that ultimately resulted in such a different playing experience for different players. However, I feel that Blizzard, through the design decisions of many of the later patches and their interaction with the WoW community through their forums, adds and fuels the fire that is dividing the WoW community and results in so many mudslinging and insulting comments being made on these forums.
Consider the 45 min UD Strat run for example, the initial reason I wanted to write this post. I have attempted the 45 min UD Strat run countless times, many times with excellent players, some with my guild, some with PUGs, and almost everytime with what I feel is a good group balance, and everytime we have yet failed to finish it within the allotted time. I've wanted to post my 2 cents on the matter on the forums many times and yet everytime I navigate to the Quests forum and look around for an existing conversation about the subject, I stop typing because I am bothered by the virulent amount of hate that certain players give to people who go onto the fourm and write up a constructive complaint about the mission. To those hardcore players I want to ask them, why is it so hard for you to consider that perhaps for a level 60 that is not in a good guild or not in a guild period, the mission is simply incredibly difficult and near-impossible? In looking at the type of people posting attacks on this subject, I see that about half of the posters either did the mission with gear that is above what the quest was designed for. The other half appear to be members of guilds that have MC and other raid instances on farm status. I feel like these players have been around guilds so long that they have totally forgotten the frustration that not being a good guild and being stuck with PUGs puts you in. Being with a strong guild provides you with an incredible advantage and I think that these players have, through their words on the topic, proven that they have taken it for granted.
Now, of course, I would hope that Blizzard would be smart enough to see the issue in a fair light. As usually however, Blizzard not only fails to address the issue in a meaningful way, they also take sides in the issue and just further splits apart players and angers them. Everytime Blizzard has responded to this issue, all they say is that they have tested the time and they feel that 45 minutes is what they want. Well, I would feel more comfortable if you gave us more information on how you tested this and determined that time. As far as I know, the time was determined by having the designers of UD Strat sitting in a room trying to blow through the instance. I imagine they probably beat it in 35 minutes and decided that they would do us a favor by giving us 10 more minutes. If this is the case, then I fail to see how this time is even fair. The fact that these testers presumably have either done UD Strat hundreds of times (or even had a hand designing it) gives you extra knowledge that you cannot possibly imagine the players having. Go find members that have done UD Strat alot? Great job Blizzard, as if it's not hard enough to find groups that are interested in doing the run, how I have to test them on how well they know the instance? And considering that you have been such an emphasis on class balance with respect to beating this in 45 minutes, I am also limited in the classes I can bring with me, no matter how well they know the instance. With respect to the people who just tell those complaining to find a good guild, I put forth my opinion that any guild who can consistently beat the 45 min run is obviously either well into or farther than MC. Alot of people, myself including, consider 45 minutes to be way too short a time. Considering that second and third places on your contest finished with roughly 4 minutes to spare, I am inclined to think that this mission is indeed highly unfair for its intended audience. Whereas Blizzard could have and should have addressed people's complaints about "Dead Man's Plea" in a constructive fashion and told us why they feel the mission should be the way it is, all they have done is give us a vague reason at best and then jump on the bandwagon of L2P insults. As I will continue to show below, this tendency of Blizzard to avoid meaningful discussion in favor of joining the flame wars is not merely addressed towards casual players.
What confuses me the most is the way that raiders and PvPers seem completely unable to understand one another, especially in the discussion regarding the new Rank 14 weapons. It simply boggles my mind why so many raiders were against old Rank 14s gaining access to the expanded set of weapons. For one thing, the new Rank 14 weapons were put in to reflect the lack of items tailored for certain classes. While it is true that new items are added all the time to raids, there has simply never been a raid instance that were biased against certain classes loot-wise in the way that the Rank 14 weapon set did. New items are put into instances for simply that, to add new items. The new Rank 14 weapons were added to correct an oversight that Blizzard made. The argument that many raiders made that is just simply laughable in its ignorance is their claim that raiding higher level instances takes as much work as it does for someone to hit Rank 14. I hate to break it to the raiders, but unless you were those first people working their butts on trying to beat the bosses right when it came out, before all the strategies had been put on WoWWiki and Thottbot, you just simply didn't do anything. I'll give credit to the people working their butts off on Naxx with no website to look up for strategies and the people who did the same back when BWL and MC and other instances first came out. Everyone else is just reaping the benefits of other people's work. How so many raiders can claim that their work is more important and takes more time than getting Rank 14 is just laughable to me.
As with the previous example, I would like to think that Blizzard, the almighty creators would have the partiality to look at the situation in a fair light and come up with a workable solution. Again, they failed miserably. As far as I can tell, Blizzard's ultimate point was that they acknowledged that the grind to Rank 14 was a giant timesink that should not be and yet in the end, they did not want to offer it because attaining Rank 14 should be about the self-satisfaction of hitting that rank and not about any gear. Well first of all, I just don't understand why Blizzard isn't willing to correct a mistake which is their fault, seeing as they neglected to provide these weapons back in the beginning. Why are you telling former Rank 14s that they should just rerank up to Rank 14, a task which I am not even sure is physically possible in terms of a person's health, social life, etc. Second of all, if it's all about self-satisfaction and not gear, then I would like to suggest the removal of all gear and items from Naxx. Instead of gear, just give them a status symbol or a little novelty trinket that doesn't really do much. I can't speak for the server, but if I saw someone walking around with a little status box that was like "I have beaten Kel'thuzad" I'd give him a /bow. It is simply hypocritical that raiders are given incentives to raid new instances as opposed to just doing it for personal satisfaction and yet Blizzard is doing the opposite to PvPers. Not only is Blizzard's own actions and the defense of their actions questionable, but their siding with raiders just simply further splits raiders and PvPers from each other.
At this point, I think people are thinking that I am just a complaining n00b, that I am just bashing Blizzard because their final decision wasn't the one I wanted to hear. The truth is that what turns me and many others off is not the final decision that Blizzard makes, but the way they present their decision, something that is painfully obvious now with the release of Blizzard's idea of how to bring back world PvP.
I have always associated Blizzard with quality products and I want to believe that when Blizzard makes their patches to WoW, they are sitting their working their asses off on it, considering all sorts of possible improvements and suggestions, and that the final product I am receiving is the best one that can be. While this may be true, the lack of communication that Blizzard has with its fanbase just does not suggest that this is the case.
When it was announced that Blizzard was going to greatly improve PvP with the next patch and bring back world PvP, there are just so many possibilities that anyone could think of. Now, I understand that ultimately dreams give way to reality and that the grandest and most elaborate ideas most often cannot see the light of day. Still, the final world PvP concept that Blizzard has presented just simply looks pathetic and is so far removed from the dreams and ideas that people here had that I do wonder what Blizzard is doing. I want to believe Blizzard when they say that the sand idea is so good and that all these others ideas aren't possible but I simply cannot because Blizzard has given me no reason to do so. Why not elaborate on how this final idea emerged better than the others? Why not let us know earlier? It is obvious that at best, the feedback we give is accepted on a superficial level and that massive forum complaints aren't going to change Blizzard's mind, so why don't they just give us the news early? The mere fact that the world PvP news are broken on IGN first and not told to us first is insulting enough and says alot about the way Blizzard communicates with its fanbase.
The truth is that the image Blizzard has projected in these three examples suggests that they do not care about casual players and their progressiom, they love raiders and do not care about PvP problems, and that they are too lazy to come up with something better for world PvP. Why do I say this? Not because of Blizzard's actual decisions, but the way they present their decisions and addressed people's problems. The fact is, everytime Blizzard presents something controversial to the userbase, it does not want to defend its decision. Blizzard just wants us to blindly trust their vision of the game and assure us that there is some fix for the issue that is planned. Well if you want people to accept your ideas more easily, perhaps you ought to share more information on the way you see the game and want it to go. There are little complaints about the expansion and there were much less complaints about WoW itself in the first year. This is Blizzard with the expansion, Blizzard has shown us a good deal about their vision of the game and so we the audience have some idea of what Blizzard is thinking. The same is true of WoW itself in the first year, where you had an in-development page that did a nice rudamentary job of giving us an idea of where the game is heading. The complaints are increasing and intensifying in these recent months because we are kept in the dark about where the overall arc of the game is going until the expansion. Considering the lack of communication on Blizzard's part, there should be no surprise that when the new world PvP idea was presented, there would be alot of dissent. Instead, Blizzard' community managers and community MVPs are acting as though our shock and unhappiness is unreasonable and unwarranted.
All in all, I can understand why there is such dissent between the different types of players on the different problems facing WoW. People are generally short-sighted and only barely see farther than their own problems and needs. Were I in a guild running Naxx all day, I might be inclined to forget that for a large population on the server, something as "simple" as a UD Strat run could be difficult. I might even look at the guys grinding Rank 14 and see my achievements in Naxx as being superior to theirs. It is true that alot of us on the forums, possibly myself included, are just utterly full of it. However, it surprises me when Blizzard, who made the game and supposedly has some huge plan in sort for us, fails to lead by example in starting up constructive discussion and instead often ends up joining in these fistfights. I have yet to see a major complaint given on this forum where one side was just completely wrong. Instead of explaining their point however and telling us in a reasonable fashion why, Blizzard too often just takes one side and justifies it with as little concrete proof and justification as many of the trolls on this forum. This is true of the rank 14 situation, the world PvP situation, the 45 min run, and many others. All this ends up doing is encouraging people to continue with their own narrow-minded view of the game because they see that Blizzard is obviously one-sided as well in their view of the game and pray that the next time an issue comes, that Blizzard sides with them.
In closing, I wish that Blizzard would understand that people don't write out long complaints and posts like the one I am writing now because they hate this game and are about to jump ship for EQ2 or another game. I know that I am writing this because I do believe that WoW is the best MMORPG out there but I think it could be even better. I am sure that the same is true for most of the people posting here, whether it be complaining about 45 min runs, Rank 14 weapons, or world PvP and whether we are casual players, hardcore raiders, or hardcore PvPers. I just wish that Blizzard and some of the forum posters would come to realize this instead of looking at every post as being a personal attack. Maybe then, this will foster a better environment for productive development of WoW.[ post edited by Moor ]
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9115426 |
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Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 3:09:43 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication |
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Q u o t e:
Everytime Blizzard has responded to this issue, all they say is that they have tested the time and they feel that 45 minutes is what they want. Well, I would feel more comfortable if you gave us more information on how you tested this and determined that time.
Took some digging to find this, but I knew I had posted this somewhere:
http://blue.cardplace.com/cache/wow-general/8131356.htm
While we try to provide clear information, due to players reading/posting habits, they may not be present for every bit of information that comes along. Just because you did not see a particular response to a question doesn't mean it wasn't provided. We are working with natural limitations of a message board. While new forum technology may help towards this end, I don't imagine it will eradicate all cases of this occurring.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9116313 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 3:30:26 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Not really a complete response |
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Q u o t e:
Why is there no direct, informative response to the overwhelming complaint and outcry about the caster Rank 14 weapons that were recently added but not available to previous rank 14 casters (when blizzard never bothered to finish the pvp gear itemization)?
There was. The problem is everyone scoffed at the answer.
The addition of items to Rank rewards is not retro-active. The updating of Rank rewards is.
Therefore, players who wanted new stuff because they were GM/HWL for a week three months ago would have to reacquire rank. It literally would have taken less time to regain the rank than it would have to create a system to track down and verify every player who might have wanted one or more of the rewards. And if they did want one or more, we couldn't be sure unless individually contacting every player.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9116552 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 4:51:36 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication |
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Q u o t e:
This is what the OP was talking about. Let me explain. The OP wrote a long post, addressing many issues, I remember reading a blues resoning about the set time limit, this fellow did not. So insteed of addresing each of the OP's points, you concentrate on an "easy" point and say "ya we did explain why" then go on to talk about the new forums going to be released which he did not write about, and ignore the rest of his posts. This is why we get angry. I'll give it to you you at least responded to the OP's post, he deserved it.
So, now I have to write a thesis paper discounting why I don't believe this to be true? The OP founded his whole post on an absolutist opinion. Blizzard NEVER does such and such a thing. I provided a clear example of how this wasn't the case.
I read the whole thing and here's what I saw to be the main point of the post:
Q u o t e:
The fact is, everytime Blizzard presents something controversial to the userbase, it does not want to defend its decision. Blizzard just wants us to blindly trust their vision of the game and assure us that there is some fix for the issue that is planned. Well if you want people to accept your ideas more easily, perhaps you ought to share more information on the way you see the game and want it to go.
While maybe some people may feel this way in relation to certain topics, it is not an all-or-nothing matter.
There is little I can do if someone says "Blizzard never does this."
Then I say, "Yes we do, here is an example."
Then you say "You didn't address the topic!"
Then I say "Yes I did, we might be reading things differently which is causing this miscommunication."
Then you say "Well, now you're just proving his point."
Then I say,"Now you're just changing the topic."
See?
edit - the summary of my point is, this is a message board and everything can not be stickied. Some topics are for discussion and might not be disseminated completely to every single viewer that may or may not wish to be alerted to such a discussion.
We post plenty of information that relates to large game changes with reasoning as to why. Will you be able to find a specific instance in which this is not the case? Probably. Is it something that is served by general, sweeping comments to the contrary? Not really.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117586 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:06:58 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication |
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Q u o t e:
Why would you have to create a system to track down ex-ranks when you could simply put in code to allow NPC's to check lifetime ranks on item purchase? Let the players decide whether they want the added items. They obviously are setup to check "current" ranks, why not allow them to check "lifetime"?
So now, what was once simply development time to make upgrades that players wanted, turns into a project to create an NPC that can do this effectively? We now spend resources testing the creature in a live environment and hope that no one can benefit from the system without meeting certain criteria. This NPC wouldn't be in game forever, would it? Cause at the time we removed this NPC, someone would come along saying they didn't have the time to buy the upgrades and we should reinstitue the NPC now.
Retro-active reimbursement is an incredibly complicated matter to deal with and have everyone think it's fair in the end.
Automatic systems require resources taken away from continuing development, while manual systems put an incredible burden on human resources.
It is a mess no matter how you cut it.
Nevermind that, once we did such a thing, we now have to do it for every, single retroactive change that will ever come down the pipe.
You aren't just asking for retro-active reimbursement. You are asking for a service of retro-active reimbursement, which we can not support due to the nature of change in the game.
Things change and we can't treat changes as if they never happened. Which is why saying that the rewards should have been in at the beginning is the common statement put up by players. It doesn't take real situations and real changes into account, it just idealizes things. Maybe they should've, but that doesn't change the facts, now, so it is beside the point.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117732 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:10:28 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication |
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Q u o t e:
This is simply not true.
Oh, but it is.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117757 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:15:45 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication |
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Q u o t e:
Umm, no.
Should we count the number of times you have already done this exact thing in the game?
I can think of the time we retro-actively changed 'Really Sticky Glue'. Boy, that was fun.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117802 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:25:26 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication |
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Look, the whole point of this thread is how I fail as a communicator, despite the fact that I communicate things.
Let's try to keep it On-Topic. Rank 14 necromancy is pointless.
edit - or is it? I don't even know what I'm doing here anymore.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117889 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:53:43 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication |
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Q u o t e:
Last I checked, Tseric was not a Dev. As well, you will find that there are a large number of people with programming experience who know that yes, it is possible, and a relatively simple matter.
I point to Tseric's response is not that they can't do it once we call him out on it, but that it takes too much time, and sets a bad precedence. I.e. he shifted his argument once we proved him wrong with almost no thought, which I believe shows simplicity of the actual problem.
So I ask who the one showing ignorance one is?
Again, this also comes down to Tseric, a CM not doing his job of communicating between the players and the Devs, but forcing his opinions on us as if he were a Dev.
Fine. I shifted gears. That particular topic has a lot of differnet points which we could argue about until the cows come home. I wasn't treating it like a black and white matter. I wish I could agree with you that it would just be one line of code and such a simple endeavor to create and implement. Maybe it is a single line of code. Doesn't really change the situation.
Maybe I'm not smart enough to make my point strongly and clearly in one fell swoop. I tend to think things through as I'm talking about them. That's just me. I tend to shoot from the hip. When I'm wrong, I pay in blood.
I guess I have nothing more to contribute to this thread.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9118192 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 6:03:15 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication |
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Q u o t e:
Allow all Rank 14s to purchase those weapons and leave it door open for all rank 14s UNTIL the day comes when you/blizzard decide to upgrade or add new items. When THAT day comes, then you can close the door to purchasable Rank 14 items.
And yet another reason why we don't want to do this, is simply because we don't want to.
We don't want it to be open-ended. We simply don't want it open to everyone like that.
Your wishes are going contrary to design intentions. Those are the spots I hate being caught in most.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9118299 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:06:58 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Why would you have to create a system to track down ex-ranks when you could simply put in code to allow NPC's to check lifetime ranks on item purchase? Let the players decide whether they want the added items. They obviously are setup to check "current" ranks, why not allow them to check "lifetime"?
So now, what was once simply development time to make upgrades that players wanted, turns into a project to create an NPC that can do this effectively? We now spend resources testing the creature in a live environment and hope that no one can benefit from the system without meeting certain criteria. This NPC wouldn't be in game forever, would it? Cause at the time we removed this NPC, someone would come along saying they didn't have the time to buy the upgrades and we should reinstitue the NPC now.
Retro-active reimbursement is an incredibly complicated matter to deal with and have everyone think it's fair in the end.
Automatic systems require resources taken away from continuing development, while manual systems put an incredible burden on human resources.
It is a mess no matter how you cut it.
Nevermind that, once we did such a thing, we now have to do it for every, single retroactive change that will ever come down the pipe.
You aren't just asking for retro-active reimbursement. You are asking for a service of retro-active reimbursement, which we can not support due to the nature of change in the game.
Things change and we can't treat changes as if they never happened. Which is why saying that the rewards should have been in at the beginning is the common statement put up by players. It doesn't take real situations and real changes into account, it just idealizes things. Maybe they should've, but that doesn't change the facts, now, so it is beside the point.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117732 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:10:28 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
This is simply not true.
Oh, but it is.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117757 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 6:18:04 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication |
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Q u o t e:
See, Tseric, this is better. The real, underlying reason instead of a pretense.
This is what we want to hear. People aren't going to be deflected by silly excuses. What you've said here is good.
Congratulations. :)
Well, then we'll just have to disagree that saying that, at the time, would have been met with calm ease from the community.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9118466 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 6:29:21 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication |
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Q u o t e:
YMMV, howver.
Look! It's an acronym I don't know!
Can someone spell this out, please? I'd be ever so grateful.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9118605 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 6:31:40 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication |
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Q u o t e:
Your Mileage May Vary
Gotcha. Thanks.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9118627 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 3:30:26 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Not really a complete response *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Why is there no direct, informative response to the overwhelming complaint and outcry about the caster Rank 14 weapons that were recently added but not available to previous rank 14 casters (when blizzard never bothered to finish the pvp gear itemization)?
There was. The problem is everyone scoffed at the answer.
The addition of items to Rank rewards is not retro-active. The updating of Rank rewards is.
Therefore, players who wanted new stuff because they were GM/HWL for a week three months ago would have to reacquire rank. It literally would have taken less time to regain the rank than it would have to create a system to track down and verify every player who might have wanted one or more of the rewards. And if they did want one or more, we couldn't be sure unless individually contacting every player.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9116552 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 4:51:36 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
This is what the OP was talking about. Let me explain. The OP wrote a long post, addressing many issues, I remember reading a blues resoning about the set time limit, this fellow did not. So insteed of addresing each of the OP's points, you concentrate on an "easy" point and say "ya we did explain why" then go on to talk about the new forums going to be released which he did not write about, and ignore the rest of his posts. This is why we get angry. I'll give it to you you at least responded to the OP's post, he deserved it.
So, now I have to write a thesis paper discounting why I don't believe this to be true? The OP founded his whole post on an absolutist opinion. Blizzard NEVER does such and such a thing. I provided a clear example of how this wasn't the case.
I read the whole thing and here's what I saw to be the main point of the post:
Q u o t e:
The fact is, everytime Blizzard presents something controversial to the userbase, it does not want to defend its decision. Blizzard just wants us to blindly trust their vision of the game and assure us that there is some fix for the issue that is planned. Well if you want people to accept your ideas more easily, perhaps you ought to share more information on the way you see the game and want it to go.
While maybe some people may feel this way in relation to certain topics, it is not an all-or-nothing matter.
There is little I can do if someone says "Blizzard never does this."
Then I say, "Yes we do, here is an example."
Then you say "You didn't address the topic!"
Then I say "Yes I did, we might be reading things differently which is causing this miscommunication."
Then you say "Well, now you're just proving his point."
Then I say,"Now you're just changing the topic."
See?
edit - the summary of my point is, this is a message board and everything can not be stickied. Some topics are for discussion and might not be disseminated completely to every single viewer that may or may not wish to be alerted to such a discussion.
We post plenty of information that relates to large game changes with reasoning as to why. Will you be able to find a specific instance in which this is not the case? Probably. Is it something that is served by general, sweeping comments to the contrary? Not really.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117586 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:06:58 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Why would you have to create a system to track down ex-ranks when you could simply put in code to allow NPC's to check lifetime ranks on item purchase? Let the players decide whether they want the added items. They obviously are setup to check "current" ranks, why not allow them to check "lifetime"?
So now, what was once simply development time to make upgrades that players wanted, turns into a project to create an NPC that can do this effectively? We now spend resources testing the creature in a live environment and hope that no one can benefit from the system without meeting certain criteria. This NPC wouldn't be in game forever, would it? Cause at the time we removed this NPC, someone would come along saying they didn't have the time to buy the upgrades and we should reinstitue the NPC now.
Retro-active reimbursement is an incredibly complicated matter to deal with and have everyone think it's fair in the end.
Automatic systems require resources taken away from continuing development, while manual systems put an incredible burden on human resources.
It is a mess no matter how you cut it.
Nevermind that, once we did such a thing, we now have to do it for every, single retroactive change that will ever come down the pipe.
You aren't just asking for retro-active reimbursement. You are asking for a service of retro-active reimbursement, which we can not support due to the nature of change in the game.
Things change and we can't treat changes as if they never happened. Which is why saying that the rewards should have been in at the beginning is the common statement put up by players. It doesn't take real situations and real changes into account, it just idealizes things. Maybe they should've, but that doesn't change the facts, now, so it is beside the point.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117732 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:10:28 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
This is simply not true.
Oh, but it is.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117757 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:15:45 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Umm, no.
Should we count the number of times you have already done this exact thing in the game?
I can think of the time we retro-actively changed 'Really Sticky Glue'. Boy, that was fun.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117802 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:25:26 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Look, the whole point of this thread is how I fail as a communicator, despite the fact that I communicate things.
Let's try to keep it On-Topic. Rank 14 necromancy is pointless.
edit - or is it? I don't even know what I'm doing here anymore.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117889 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:53:43 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Last I checked, Tseric was not a Dev. As well, you will find that there are a large number of people with programming experience who know that yes, it is possible, and a relatively simple matter.
I point to Tseric's response is not that they can't do it once we call him out on it, but that it takes too much time, and sets a bad precedence. I.e. he shifted his argument once we proved him wrong with almost no thought, which I believe shows simplicity of the actual problem.
So I ask who the one showing ignorance one is?
Again, this also comes down to Tseric, a CM not doing his job of communicating between the players and the Devs, but forcing his opinions on us as if he were a Dev.
Fine. I shifted gears. That particular topic has a lot of differnet points which we could argue about until the cows come home. I wasn't treating it like a black and white matter. I wish I could agree with you that it would just be one line of code and such a simple endeavor to create and implement. Maybe it is a single line of code. Doesn't really change the situation.
Maybe I'm not smart enough to make my point strongly and clearly in one fell swoop. I tend to think things through as I'm talking about them. That's just me. I tend to shoot from the hip. When I'm wrong, I pay in blood.
I guess I have nothing more to contribute to this thread.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9118192 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 6:03:15 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Allow all Rank 14s to purchase those weapons and leave it door open for all rank 14s UNTIL the day comes when you/blizzard decide to upgrade or add new items. When THAT day comes, then you can close the door to purchasable Rank 14 items.
And yet another reason why we don't want to do this, is simply because we don't want to.
We don't want it to be open-ended. We simply don't want it open to everyone like that.
Your wishes are going contrary to design intentions. Those are the spots I hate being caught in most.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9118299 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 6:18:04 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
See, Tseric, this is better. The real, underlying reason instead of a pretense.
This is what we want to hear. People aren't going to be deflected by silly excuses. What you've said here is good.
Congratulations. :)
Well, then we'll just have to disagree that saying that, at the time, would have been met with calm ease from the community.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9118466 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 6:29:21 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
YMMV, howver.
Look! It's an acronym I don't know!
Can someone spell this out, please? I'd be ever so grateful.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9118605 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 6:31:40 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Your Mileage May Vary
Gotcha. Thanks.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9118627 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 4:51:36 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
This is what the OP was talking about. Let me explain. The OP wrote a long post, addressing many issues, I remember reading a blues resoning about the set time limit, this fellow did not. So insteed of addresing each of the OP's points, you concentrate on an "easy" point and say "ya we did explain why" then go on to talk about the new forums going to be released which he did not write about, and ignore the rest of his posts. This is why we get angry. I'll give it to you you at least responded to the OP's post, he deserved it.
So, now I have to write a thesis paper discounting why I don't believe this to be true? The OP founded his whole post on an absolutist opinion. Blizzard NEVER does such and such a thing. I provided a clear example of how this wasn't the case.
I read the whole thing and here's what I saw to be the main point of the post:
Q u o t e:
The fact is, everytime Blizzard presents something controversial to the userbase, it does not want to defend its decision. Blizzard just wants us to blindly trust their vision of the game and assure us that there is some fix for the issue that is planned. Well if you want people to accept your ideas more easily, perhaps you ought to share more information on the way you see the game and want it to go.
While maybe some people may feel this way in relation to certain topics, it is not an all-or-nothing matter.
There is little I can do if someone says "Blizzard never does this."
Then I say, "Yes we do, here is an example."
Then you say "You didn't address the topic!"
Then I say "Yes I did, we might be reading things differently which is causing this miscommunication."
Then you say "Well, now you're just proving his point."
Then I say,"Now you're just changing the topic."
See?
edit - the summary of my point is, this is a message board and everything can not be stickied. Some topics are for discussion and might not be disseminated completely to every single viewer that may or may not wish to be alerted to such a discussion.
We post plenty of information that relates to large game changes with reasoning as to why. Will you be able to find a specific instance in which this is not the case? Probably. Is it something that is served by general, sweeping comments to the contrary? Not really.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117586 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/18/2006 5:10:28 PM PDT
Subject: Re: An Issue of Communication *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
This is simply not true.
Oh, but it is.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9115426&p=#post9117757 |
