Poster: Granlin at 7/15/2006 1:57:40 PM PDT
Subject: Bizzaro WOW: Player Idea DOMINATED Realm |
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There is normal, pvp, rp, rppvp, etc realm types...
Well, I think there needs to be one special realm much like a test realm, but not, where the best player voted ideas get toyed with and used, the realm would be persistant just like any other realm in play, but on this realm, the coolest voted on (ranked ideas) get put in.
Such a realm could be vastly different than normal realms, or it could be almost simular but add some niftier features.
Best of all, you wouldn't have blizzard saying 'well that doesn't fit with our vision'
Bizzaro WOW
*disclaimer: I do know the response from any developers would be 'we don't have time or resources to do that for only 1 realm'
BUT think about it, you can develop normal ones, and TEST good ideas that players seem to like and SEE if they work out as intended, or somehow they get all wonky. I bet the population on that server would be maxed out, and only the population on that realm could possibly vote on the ideas suggested *shrug*
it would be a great little persistant testing ground for everything.
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Poster: Tseric at 7/15/2006 2:12:27 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bizzaro WOW: Player Idea DOMINATED Realm |
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As much as this should be in the suggestion forum, I won't lock it, but will say this.
I think it would be interesting to have a seperate realm run by committee.
I think it would really be an interesting 'careful what you wish for' example.
I can just imagine all of the bickering over ideas. The up and down-voting people would attempt to get their idea pushed through. The unbridled ego of someone that had their idea chosen.
Fascinating...
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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Poster: Tseric at 7/15/2006 2:18:04 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bizzaro WOW: Player Idea DOMINATED Realm |
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Q u o t e:
So you only wish you could accommodate player requests, to the point where it would cause people misery? Fascinating ...
No, I would simply like a clear example of why game design by public committee fails. A clear thing to point to and say, this is why game designers are professionals and get paid to do this.
Everyone and their dog thinks they can design a game better than the people who actually have experience.
The practice is vastly different from the preaching.
That's all.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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Poster: Tseric at 7/15/2006 3:13:46 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bizzaro WOW: Player Idea DOMINATED Realm |
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Q u o t e:
but you are just blatantly ignoring your entire playerbase because you think you are better.
I'm sorry, but no. If this were true, we wouldn't be on these forums.
Your post makes a lot of assumptions about my character, which are wrong.
There is a difference between having feedback influence design and plucking ideas straight from the player base. Both of these occur, but in different quantities.
The urge of the player, as reflected in your post, is to have majority control over the direction of the game. This does not work because majority rule does not provide clear goals and cohesive game design.
I am not speaking for myself when talking about design experience. However, I am in a position to see what actually goes into it and the other considerations that don't fit in to the "but it's so easy to fix, just do this..." attitude that MOST players here maintain.
I'm not saying there aren't good ideas out there. It's just that the majority of them do not bear the scrutiny of actual testing, consideration and polish that goes into game changes.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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Poster: Tseric at 7/15/2006 3:16:08 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bizzaro WOW: Player Idea DOMINATED Realm |
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Q u o t e:
oh, and tseric, the reason I dont post in the suggestions forums is the lack of blue response, I see absolutely NO participation in any ideas presented, and therefore alot of what i have posted in the past has just wasted away on the boards to die a unbumpped death.
:P
Because of legal reasons. Lack of reply has no bearing on the attention given to the forum.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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Poster: Tseric at 7/15/2006 3:39:28 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bizzaro WOW: Player Idea DOMINATED Realm |
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Q u o t e:
So...who are those on your staff who actually have experience?
Lead designer Jeff Kaplan (Tigole) has zero game design credits prior to joining your staff.
Quest designer Alex Afrasiabi (Furor) has zero game design credits prior to joining your staff.
Chris Metzen has zero MMORPG design credits prior to joining the WoW staff.
Rob Pardo has zero MMORPG design credits prior to joining the WoW staff.
Tom Chilton worked on three Ultima Online expansions, but no previous basic games. Anyone remember Age of Shadows? Remember how it absolutely ruined PVP, making it absolutely gear dependent? Hmmmm...
So, exactly which people are the ones on your staff who actually have experience?
Because the ones who most frequently talk, the ones who most frequently claim responsiblity for new content...they don't.
No one is born an MMO developer.
Perhaps what I should have said is: Everyone and their dog thinks that they can make a better game than the people actually making it.
The majority of people on your list have worked on this game since inception. That is over 6 years of practical experience. For a first go at something new to the company, I would have to say the results are rather favorable.
And no, you will not get me into a blame game by singling out people that you might take issue with.
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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Poster: Tseric at 7/15/2006 4:05:34 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bizzaro WOW: Player Idea DOMINATED Realm |
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Q u o t e:
Don't you all know that position dictates compitence? The devs are in their position because they know more than you just like Sen. Ted Stevens is in charge of regulating e-commerce because he knows the truth that the internet is actually a series of tubes.
Yeah, cause public office is an accurate comparison to a position in a private company.
O.o
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=9077063&p=#post9078526 |
Poster: Tseric at 7/15/2006 4:44:54 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Bizzaro WOW: Player Idea DOMINATED Realm |
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Q u o t e:
If you're willing to listen to the ideas of developers with no previous MMO design experience, you should be willing to listen to the suggestions of players with no previous MMO design experience.
My issue is not with specific developers, but with the fact that you somehow think the ideas of developers with no experience are better than the new ideas of players with no experience. How do you justify that?
I never said that. I am talking quantity and situation.
I'm sure if some players were plucked from the player base, some of them would excel and some would fall short in the business environment.
Point is, we are dealing with players personal opinions of how the game should be designed. Most of these opinions, due to the vast quantity of them, do not agree with each other.
If there is one ring and a thousand people grabbing for it, only one person is going to get it. Doesn't mean that the rest of them are weak, it is just an impossible situation for everyone to have 'equal share' and should be understood as such.
We have many venues by which feedback and suggestions are gathered. Some people seem to expect that the process has to be limited to here and here alone and if they don't get a blue reply to their suggestion, then it is all in vain. That is simply a selfish attitude.
The underlying issue here is the difference between feedback and suggestions and what people expect from these forums. Often, what is expected differs greatly from what we can actually accomplish here. Idealism falls short in the face of reality.[ post edited by Tseric ]
The path of least resistance tempts all ramblers.
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