Poster: Dyingbreath at 6/20/2006 8:30:58 PM PDT
Subject: Blizzard hates world PvP |
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Another example that Blizzard hates world PvP is that they put guards at LHC. That was my favorite place to go and pvp win or lose. Blizzard please bring back world PvP and get rid of those lame BG's. flame on!
I <3 Muffins
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Poster: Nethaera at 6/21/2006 9:17:20 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Blizzard hates world PvP |
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No, Blizzard doesn't hate world PvP. I personally love it as do many other people.
The guards put in at LHC are only there to help facilitate the new accessibility of the area as a quest hub much like the Cenarion Hold functions. This does not preclude PvP from still occurring outside the range of the guards. Much like Cenarion Hold and Gadgetzan, once outside their influence anyone is fair game.
Also take note that more world PvP events and goals are slated to be added in The Burning Crusade expansion (in Outland) thus negating the claim that Blizzard hates world PvP. ;)
For more information on the Burning Crusade players can always go to the site to learn more.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrusade/
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/burningcrusade/faq.html
Also as other players have pointed out 1.12 will also include more world PvP.
"World PvP
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While the Battlegrounds are about to receive a major upgrade of their own, players interested in World PvP will be glad to hear that patch 1.12 will introduce a brand-new type of PvP content to the game. The stage is set for objective-based land battles of truly epic proportions as Horde and Alliance vie for control over important strategic positions and resources around Azeroth. Stay tuned for more news about these new world PvP enhancements coming to World of Warcraft."
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/
(*Edited the last link.)[ post edited by Nethaera ]
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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Poster: Nethaera at 6/21/2006 9:36:57 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Blizzard hates world PvP |
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Q u o t e:
So, why did they purposefully kill it to lessen server load? This post is alarmist, yes, but why did the LHC guards make it into PVP servers? People can quest and have PVP too...and even so, it's all that left of the "PVP" on PVP servers.
I have played on predominantly PvP servers for the entirety that I have been playing WoW myself. I understand where you are coming from and at the same time know from experience that it is often frustrating when you are low on time to have to fight your way in to get a quest. Add to that the ability of groups of people and even entire guilds to take over that area and it defeats the purpose of the area.
We could probably argue that you are just simply keeping the enemy from progressing and that it's purely strategic and perhaps for you it would seem so but to others it can get to the point where it is just griefing.
It just isn't appropriate to allow that sort of thing to happen around a questing area when there are other areas people can go to pvp that do not disrupt the purpose of the area. With future plans being worked on to add purposeful world PvP there is no reason to not to have added in the guards.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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Poster: Nethaera at 6/21/2006 10:10:46 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Blizzard hates world PvP |
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Q u o t e:
I disagree. We used to raid Crossroads, before DKs, and since you dont seem to understand, this is how it went:
1) Alliance raid of 20-40 come and raid crossroads.
2) Horde who are already there get killed and call for help
3) Over the next 10 minutes, more horde arrive and are also killed
4) Super cool pvp happens as horde reinforcements balance the alliance
5) Horde have superior numbers and alliance get slaughtered
6) After a few more deaths each (sporting) the alliance leave
It all balances. The same would be true if 40 horde raided Goldshire.
It wasnt a problem. Quest givers respawn in as low as 30 seconds (Ive seen it) to 5 mins max.
DKs made the world a more boring place, even though I've never been good at pvp (resto druid) so I dont have a big ego to grind.
No, I do understand. I also understand that there were alot of complaints about people trying to level and being unable to because their quest givers were being constantly killed. While, yes it's a horde controlled zone so that those horde didn't have to get killed, it was still a means of harrassment for those players since they were:
A. Not of a level to fight back
B. Having to stand around waiting for someone to do something in an area in which not many higher level horde convene on a regular basis.
C. Not everyone has a guild to back them up or a large group of friends that will help them out.
Your idea of what worked fine wasn't the same on the other side of the coin all the time. Sometimes it was a great distraction from questing and sometimes it was just an additional frustration
We're talking about the same thing here however, we don't agree about what constitutes disruption or not.
People join PvP servers to PvP that is true, however everyone also needs that chance to be able to level and progress the same as anyone else and be viable in their own mind. These sorts of checks and balances just give that opportunity.
I know that the guards haven't always saved me from someone killing me also, whether I've been in Cenarion Hold or Gadgetzan. People have their tricks for doing it but it should at the least minimize the risks involved so that people can get a fair shot at progressing.
Adding the guards isn't going to kill all PvP that happens in that area. It's just going to make the function of the location far more accessible to everyone without worrying that the moment you take a few steps you'll be made into a crispy critter by a mage with an itchy finger.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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Poster: Nethaera at 6/21/2006 11:21:29 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Blizzard hates world PvP |
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There is more to this issue and less both in what is being discussed here.
The conversation has gone from just being about having guards at a location that has been revamped in order to allow for more activity by both sides to NPC Quest Giver vulnerabilities vs World PvP and what constitutes it.
Let's address the guards in Light's Hope a bit more simply. Someone in the thread (I apologize for not remembering your name off-hand) mentioned the very idea of places like Cenarion Hold and now Light's Hope Chapel is to facilitate cooperation between the factions of a sort. Yes, everyone is still on everyone else's enemy list on the opposing factions. However, both sides are also working with the Cenarion Circle and Argent Dawn to fight some pretty menacing world issues. It's in everyone's best interests to work together to a small degree. If you kill each other on the way to doing it neither is going to care about that but if you do it in their camp in front of them they are not going to be too happy and they are going to do what it takes to keep the peace.
Next, as far as making the NPCs invulnerable. I believe at one point in time it was brought up due to the griefing that was occuring and ultimately the NPCs were not changed. In the end the result was adding in negative kills to the system to dissuade people from doing so. I believe that it also takes away from the feeling of affecting the world even if it's in a negative way by making these NPCs invulnerable but that's just my opinion.
As for the definition of "World PvP", what is meant by world PvP is simply that it can occur in the world without the need to queue up and enter a battleground. The details of how world PvP will be implemented are not out yet but I'm sure as more is worked out we'll be able to get you more of that information.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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Poster: Nethaera at 6/21/2006 11:40:12 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Blizzard hates world PvP |
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I understand what you are saying Milkman and honestly without real world goals for people to take part in, anything that is "World PvP" just means you can fight each other. There are no end goals other than continuing the overarching story of Good vs Evil (you decide who is really the evil side ;) ). I believe the intention behind World PvP goals that are slated for the future is to give people some feeling that what they do matters even just for a little bit.
I know I'm personally looking forward to see exactly what the powers that be have in mind for it. Like I said before, I enjoy PvP myself so will benefit the same as any other player by these additions.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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Poster: Nethaera at 6/21/2006 11:44:07 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Blizzard hates world PvP |
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Q u o t e:
I have a somewhat related question to guards in neutral towns. I had some Cen Hold guards kill me recently when I hadn't attacked anyone in town. In fact, I wasn't engaed in combat with anyone in town either (i.e. rogue/hunter). I did have some scorpions following me though. I don't make a practice of such training, but it happens sometimes totally by accident. To my surprise the guards ran right out and whooped me good. Is this working as intended?
If your faction is good with them you shouldn't have any issues. That said however, if you ever find a way to reproduce the situation you could always report it as a bug to be looked into. I don't believe the guards are overly fond of the scorpions but then again enough time out in the desert can make anyone a little crazy.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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Poster: Nethaera at 6/21/2006 12:11:51 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Blizzard hates world PvP |
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Q u o t e:
What I have to say to this:
If people were stuck at a certain level because their quest givers were being killed, how was anyone able to get to 60 when there wasnt DK's?
Ive been apart of this game since it started. I am also on a pvp server. I know that my experience doesnt mean everyone else had the same experience, but, I also know that eventually the quest giver will respawn and you can continue on your way. In my mind, there is nothing cooler than a raid of horde attacking my city. It actually makes you feel like you are affecting the game in some way, not letting the game dictate what you will be doing.
Instead of saying,"I helped hold of an attack on Stormwind," you say," I pvped in a battleground for 4 hours with people I dont know, and the outcome really didnt matter."
We all lose games in BG's and it doesnt affect anything, but letting your king in your city get killed.... that makes you feel apart of the game.
Edit: Spelling is hard.
I didn't say that people weren't able to progress to get to 60 but I remember well the race to level faster than the other side so that you could get your quests done before you were overrun. Hillsbrad has always been an exceptionally difficult place to work on quests for Horde primarily. Then when you hadn't beaten the other side with getting to 60 first, you had to find alternate areas to level in. I personally have no problem with this and always found it challenging but there is a difference between creating a play experience that is challenging and creating a play experience that is frustrating. When making changes like these the big picture has to come into it and that includes many people and their playstyles and what is too much and what is too little.
In this case it comes down to playstyle. Some people like hardcore no-holds barred PvP. Some people like PvP but don't want it to be so 'in your face' every moment of their play experience but still want that 'anywhere anytime' feel of PvP.
No, Guards are not going to be getting removed.
I think the best bet at this point is to let the patch settle in and see how it all goes before people start deciding that they hate what has been changed in this regard.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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Poster: Nethaera at 6/22/2006 1:56:48 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Blizzard hates world PvP |
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Q u o t e:
Ok so appearantly my definition of world pvp differs greatly from blizzards idea of what it is. World pvp is just that, throughout the world. If I want to go to epl to look for people to gank, thats what I will do. There is no objective. New "world pvp in the future" will have objectives and be in a certain place. THAT IS NOT WORLD PVP IT IS A GLORIFIED BATTLEGROUNDS WITH NO QUE! Please stop crapping in boxes, putting a shiny wrapper on it and calling it what it isnt blizzard. Please?
You're looking at it wrong Paulbo. While you are fine with not having any goals to shoot for, others have expressed a desire for PvP to mean something more; this includes having goals. I personally love killing for the sake of killing. I don't need to gloat over someone's corpse or get anything out of it other than knowing I killed the enemy. At the same time, having some sort of goal makes it mean more. Knowing that if you kill x to do y just adds to the value of killing someone.
For some that RP and PvP it's the story of good vs. evil that pulls them in.
For others that don't care about RP at all, it's the killing that matters only. But at some point, many people decide that killing isn't enough anymore.
I believe the Honor system was greatly influenced by people's desire to have a ranking system of some sort to keep track of who was on top. While many believe it is flawed, it exists just for that purpose.
The addition of World PvP goals is no different. It is simply adding a new layer of possibilities to an activity that many already enjoy taking part in.
I didn't forget this thread but I felt that I needed to spread the love around a bit more so that it didn't seem that only one or two threads were getting the attention they wanted/needed.
I think many people are misinterpreting my statements as being personal in nature. While I've stated some of my own personal playstyle here for people, I'm also looking at the larger picture which includes people of other playstyles and their own preferences. It would be nearsighted of me to not try to look at various people's viewpoints and try to understand where they are coming from and then do my best to represent those ideas as well as my own and those that think like me.
To light a candle is to cast a shadow.
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