Poster: Izmir at 4/26/2006 11:16:31 AM PDT
Subject: Role PLaying - Lack of Support |
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So many new players on Malestrom and Silver Hand often ask me "What is the difference between a PVP-RP/RP and a PVP/PVE server?". My anwser in game is usually "Well we like to encourage people to be in character, and roleplay here as much as possible." Unfortunately that is all we are able to do - encourage. So I thought about it a moment. What are the real differences?
PVP Server: Server that runs on PVP rules.
PVE Server: Kinda like a PVP server, but with no flagging for entering enemy or contested territory.
RP Server: Might have a couple of Role Players. See PVE Server.
PVP RP Server: Might have a couple of Role Players. See PVP Server.
Now I know that it may seem at first that the reason there is little RP evident on most RP servers is a lack of interest. But NO, that is not true. The reason that RP is few and far between can be summarized simply: Lack of support from Blizzard.
Honestly, can any of you tell me that Blizzard supports RP at all for this game? Rules go uninformed. Naming conventions were enforced once upon a time, (try a week) but now we have to deal with players like "Hallsehoof" and "Ghandalf".
Emotes are limited at best. Some other MMOS on the market have double what is available to us. Some MMOs even allow you to dance in different styles... however we are limited to one dance per race/gender.
There is not ability to have physical interaction that is not combat. For example, in Matrix Online, a hug can be accepted, meaning that both characters then embrace on screen, rather than just giving a little text message.
Now let's think about some things that World of Warcraft could really benefit from. My personal example being a mod known as FlagRSP.
http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=1028
This mod allows players to take notes on other players and interactions. Set your own RP status (are you looking for contact? Active RPer? Casual?). Set friendly, neutral, or enemy flags. Set a first name and RP title, even a little description others can read should they wish to take the time.
Now, if you ask me a system like that is quite easy to install and have players use in order to encourage RP. Heck, they would not even need to provide features like that on every server, just the RP servers.
Instead, we are forced to deal with a lack of any truly innovative system supported RP features, and a rule set that is hardly known, let alone enforced.
So yes, I am going to get a ton of "cry mores" or "STFU", and I do realize that the main problem is Blizzard's focus on Raiding...
But I mean come on, RPers are simply mocked by other players and ignored by Blizzard. I seem to remember in Beta being promised some quite nice RP features... I'm still waiting.[ post edited by Izmir ]
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8048031 | | | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 11:21:02 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support |
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While I understand your concern from a truly personal point of view (I myself am a very active member of an extremely hardcore RP guild), I would caution you that your post and the thoughts contained therein sound a lot like precisely what, in my experience, turns people from the sort who innocently ask "What's RP?" into griefers: Roleplay elitism.
I would urge you to restructure and reword your post so that you don't invite flaming and/or harassment.
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8048089 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 11:21:02 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support *edited post* |
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While I understand your concern from a truly personal point of view (I myself am a very active member of an extremely hardcore RP guild), I would caution you that your post and the thoughts contained therein sound a lot like precisely what, in my experience, turns people from the sort who innocently ask "What's RP?" into griefers: Roleplay elitism.
I would urge you to restructure and reword your post so that you don't invite flaming and/or harassment.
Edit: Thank you. Much better. Now let's see if we can't have a constructive discussion on this that'd warrant a CM's attention.[ post edited by Coreiel ]
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8048089 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 2:20:11 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support |
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Q u o t e:
So you're saying, we should make reports and all will be well, but my experience (and I am far from alone in this) is that reports are a waste of time, because Blizzard has no interest in enforcing the rules they created. We have reacted to the rules and made the reports and the official response has been, essentially, "don't bother us."
I think we may not be owed an apology, but I do think we are owed an explanation for why Blizzard has chosen to disregard the RP server rules. I'm inclined to think it would be better if they were simply honest and said, "There is no RP ruleset. It's either PvP or PvE and that's it."
I'll explain this very simply:
The Role-Play rulesets are open to situational interpretation, and the Game Masters investigate every report individually. If a Game Master investigates a situation and judges it to be appropriate, then that's the Game Master's judgment, and that's the end of the story. They are the authority in this game, if you'll recall.
A previous poster in this thread made an excellent point involving horse blinders. Next time you report someone for "breaking" the RP rules on an RP server, think for a moment on whether you're reporting that player for actually breaking the rules or simply because that person's roleplay style doesn't match your views.[ post edited by Coreiel ]
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8050989 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 2:29:16 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support |
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Q u o t e:
Peoplea re not roleplaying in WoW. They are following a closed system of pre-fab illogical fantasy elements. That is not roleplaying. That is Ametuar Night at the Apollo.
You can't roleplay in a story that relies on Deus ex Machina to solve all complex situations. Any attempt is futile and is ultimately synthetic.
You've crossed the line between "constructive discussion" and outright harassment of the individuals who choose to roleplay in the World of Warcraft. Use your short vacation to cool off, and I expect to see no more trolling when you return.
Additionally, if you're going to call others amateurs, at least spell it right.
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8051155 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 2:33:01 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support |
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Q u o t e:
Hahaha owned =) (Hope that doesn't get me a ban).
BTW Coriel, any chance my suggestion might get implemented, or is this more something I should propose in the Suggestion forums?
The Suggestion forums are there for a reason. ;) If it's not already posted there, please feel free to do so.
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8051199 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 3:10:27 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support |
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Q u o t e:
[...] a straw man position that somehow the community is responsible for Blizzard's failure to enforce its written rules. We're not. We report, they ignore.
I'm not sure entirely where you see a straw man argument, my friend. However, let me ask one question: On what are you basing your assumptions of the Game Masters "ignoring" your reports? Not seeing the effects of their work?
If you report a character, one of two things can happen:
1) The Game Master investigates the character, finds the activity/name inappropriate, and takes the appropriate actions for that situation,
or,
2) The Game Master investigates the character, finds the activity/name appropriate, and lets the character go on his way.
You'll note, I hope, that the only scenario in which you would notice the effects of the Game Master's actions is when the Game Master deems the activity or name appropriate, and the character returns to what he was doing. A Game Master will never notify you of any action taken on another player, ever. Simply because you don't hear about someone getting spoken to by a Game Master doesn't mean that it hasn't happened.
As a final thought, if what you're frustrated about is that the Game Masters' interpretations of the naming policies don't match yours, isn't it a bit... well, elitist of you, for lack of a better word, to presume to know better than the Game Master what constitutes a proper name?
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8051679 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 3:10:27 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
[...] a straw man position that somehow the community is responsible for Blizzard's failure to enforce its written rules. We're not. We report, they ignore.
I'm not sure entirely where you see a straw man argument, my friend. However, let me ask one question: On what are you basing your assumptions of the Game Masters "ignoring" your reports? Not seeing the effects of their work?
If you report a character, one of two things can happen:
1) The Game Master investigates the character, finds the activity/name inappropriate, and takes the appropriate actions for that situation,
or,
2) The Game Master investigates the character, finds the activity/name appropriate, and lets the character go on his way.
You'll note, I hope, that the only scenario in which you would notice the effects of the Game Master's actions is when the Game Master deems the activity or name appropriate, and the character returns to what he was doing. A Game Master will never notify you of any action taken on another player, ever. Simply because you don't hear about someone getting spoken to by a Game Master doesn't mean that it hasn't happened.
As a final thought, if what you're frustrated about is that the Game Masters' interpretations of the naming policies don't match yours, isn't it a bit... well, elitist of you, for lack of a better word, to presume to know better than the Game Master what constitutes a proper name?
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8051679 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 3:23:39 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support |
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Q u o t e:
You don't even know what I've reported, so you have no grounds to make an assumption on the merits of my reports. In fact, I rarely report myself, because when I did, I was told by the GMs I spoke with that the rules in questions were not going to be enforced. I am not the only one told that either. There have been long discussions in my own realm forums about how many people were told by GMs that naming rules, rules about OOC chat, etc. would not be enforced.
Address that, instead of making excuses.
Well, you should report more. :P
If you're totally unwilling to help, don't sit by and complain that nothing's changing for the better. Or didn't you realize that the Game Masters can only address those issues that are reported to them?
It's not as though a single Game Master sits around in Ironforge trawling for rulebreakers, you know. A team of GMs is assigned to a group of Realms, and they address issues across that group. If Beefpatty is bothering you, and you don't report it, the chances are good that the Game Masters don't even know he exists.
I think we've identified the problem, Itis. Next time you see someone breaking the RP rules, be constructive and ask them to stop, and if they refuse, report them.
Then, if things aren't to your satisfaction, come back here to complain. ;)
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8051829 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 3:27:10 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support |
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Q u o t e:
Feathers, that's the problem the rest of us have - we report time and time again and see nothing happen.
Then it would appear that the Game Masters have deemed the situation appropriate, wouldn't it? And that, even if it doesn't conform to your interpretation of the rules, perhaps you ought to learn to accept others?
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8051863 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 2:20:11 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
So you're saying, we should make reports and all will be well, but my experience (and I am far from alone in this) is that reports are a waste of time, because Blizzard has no interest in enforcing the rules they created. We have reacted to the rules and made the reports and the official response has been, essentially, "don't bother us."
I think we may not be owed an apology, but I do think we are owed an explanation for why Blizzard has chosen to disregard the RP server rules. I'm inclined to think it would be better if they were simply honest and said, "There is no RP ruleset. It's either PvP or PvE and that's it."
I'll explain this very simply:
The Role-Play rulesets are open to situational interpretation, and the Game Masters investigate every report individually. If a Game Master investigates a situation and judges it to be appropriate, then that's the Game Master's judgment, and that's the end of the story. They are the authority in this game, if you'll recall.
A previous poster in this thread made an excellent point involving horse blinders. Next time you report someone for "breaking" the RP rules on an RP server, think for a moment on whether you're reporting that player for actually breaking the rules or simply because that person's roleplay style doesn't match your views.[ post edited by Coreiel ]
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8050989 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 2:29:16 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Peoplea re not roleplaying in WoW. They are following a closed system of pre-fab illogical fantasy elements. That is not roleplaying. That is Ametuar Night at the Apollo.
You can't roleplay in a story that relies on Deus ex Machina to solve all complex situations. Any attempt is futile and is ultimately synthetic.
You've crossed the line between "constructive discussion" and outright harassment of the individuals who choose to roleplay in the World of Warcraft. Use your short vacation to cool off, and I expect to see no more trolling when you return.
Additionally, if you're going to call others amateurs, at least spell it right.
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8051155 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 2:33:01 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Hahaha owned =) (Hope that doesn't get me a ban).
BTW Coriel, any chance my suggestion might get implemented, or is this more something I should propose in the Suggestion forums?
The Suggestion forums are there for a reason. ;) If it's not already posted there, please feel free to do so.
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8051199 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 3:10:27 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
[...] a straw man position that somehow the community is responsible for Blizzard's failure to enforce its written rules. We're not. We report, they ignore.
I'm not sure entirely where you see a straw man argument, my friend. However, let me ask one question: On what are you basing your assumptions of the Game Masters "ignoring" your reports? Not seeing the effects of their work?
If you report a character, one of two things can happen:
1) The Game Master investigates the character, finds the activity/name inappropriate, and takes the appropriate actions for that situation,
or,
2) The Game Master investigates the character, finds the activity/name appropriate, and lets the character go on his way.
You'll note, I hope, that the only scenario in which you would notice the effects of the Game Master's actions is when the Game Master deems the activity or name appropriate, and the character returns to what he was doing. A Game Master will never notify you of any action taken on another player, ever. Simply because you don't hear about someone getting spoken to by a Game Master doesn't mean that it hasn't happened.
As a final thought, if what you're frustrated about is that the Game Masters' interpretations of the naming policies don't match yours, isn't it a bit... well, elitist of you, for lack of a better word, to presume to know better than the Game Master what constitutes a proper name?
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8051679 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 2:33:01 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Hahaha owned =) (Hope that doesn't get me a ban).
BTW Coriel, any chance my suggestion might get implemented, or is this more something I should propose in the Suggestion forums?
The Suggestion forums are there for a reason. ;) If it's not already posted there, please feel free to do so.
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8051199 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 2:20:11 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
So you're saying, we should make reports and all will be well, but my experience (and I am far from alone in this) is that reports are a waste of time, because Blizzard has no interest in enforcing the rules they created. We have reacted to the rules and made the reports and the official response has been, essentially, "don't bother us."
I think we may not be owed an apology, but I do think we are owed an explanation for why Blizzard has chosen to disregard the RP server rules. I'm inclined to think it would be better if they were simply honest and said, "There is no RP ruleset. It's either PvP or PvE and that's it."
I'll explain this very simply:
The Role-Play rulesets are open to situational interpretation, and the Game Masters investigate every report individually. If a Game Master investigates a situation and judges it to be appropriate, then that's the Game Master's judgment, and that's the end of the story. They are the authority in this game, if you'll recall.
A previous poster in this thread made an excellent point involving horse blinders. Next time you report someone for "breaking" the RP rules on an RP server, think for a moment on whether you're reporting that player for actually breaking the rules or simply because that person's roleplay style doesn't match your views.[ post edited by Coreiel ]
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8050989 | Poster: Coreiel at 4/26/2006 2:33:01 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Role PLaying - Lack of Support *edited post* |
| |
Q u o t e:
Hahaha owned =) (Hope that doesn't get me a ban).
BTW Coriel, any chance my suggestion might get implemented, or is this more something I should propose in the Suggestion forums?
The Suggestion forums are there for a reason. ;) If it's not already posted there, please feel free to do so.
Even yet, I have so many miles to go.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8048031&p=#post8051199 |
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