Poster: Lancelote at 11/22/2005 9:12:38 AM PST
Subject: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! |
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Who agrees that this new raid reset change will SCREW more than fix anything, SIGN HERE
if u don know what im talking about:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=5897985&P=1
the main purpose as stated by caydien is because of the cascading stuff....
imo: if this cascading is what i think it is (guilds making MC more than once per week for example), blizzard should say that this act is banable and put someone to keep a look at ppl who do it and ban them, or something like this.... not this "easy fix" $!@% they are going to do that will screw alot of ppl's raids....
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5907331 |
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Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 9:41:29 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! |
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The community team brought up all the topics mentioned here to the devs, who had in turn already discussed these topics among themselves while formulating this decision.
If you want to pose a question, I'll do my best to answer them below.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5907864 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 9:46:11 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! |
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Q u o t e:
ZG and AQ (20-man) will reset EVERY three days. We currently take two days to clear ZG because 1) We simply enjoy it more by spreading it out. and 2) People who can't come the first day can come the second, spreading loot out over the whole guild and including everyone.
What happens when the raid reset falls in the middle of our two day raid?
There is no criteria to finish up the zone in 3 days. If the reset occurs in the middle of that time, it should be an added chance for players to go back and complete other parts of the raid dungeon for more added drops, that were already completed during the previous day.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5907996 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 9:51:34 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! |
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Q u o t e:
Most of all the raiding guilds are now going to be up starting their runs and having their peak attendance on the exact same day. You are taking an entire week of guilds starting their raids and pigeon holing them into a single day.
Most raiding guilds can finish a raid dungeon within a couple nights, and generally don't take all week, unless you are just starting out on the raid experience.
Thus, there won't be many guilds that feel there is an absolute urgency to begin at the strike of the clock on Tuesday. Generally, the learning curve for learn a new raid zone goes down as you get familiar with the encounter. Once you are familiar with an encounter you can finish it very easily. Take the case of Molten Core, because you couldn't reach Ragnaros one week doesn't ruin the experience. The next week, you can do all the other encounters for added drops and then get to, and kill Ragnaros the next time.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5908162 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 9:46:11 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
ZG and AQ (20-man) will reset EVERY three days. We currently take two days to clear ZG because 1) We simply enjoy it more by spreading it out. and 2) People who can't come the first day can come the second, spreading loot out over the whole guild and including everyone.
What happens when the raid reset falls in the middle of our two day raid?
There is no criteria to finish up Zul'Gurub in 3 days, as it is designed to allow players to select which encounter they wish to partake in, without having to go through a linear progression. If the reset occurs in the middle of that time, it should be an added chance for players to go back and complete other parts of the raid dungeon for more added drops, that were already completed during the previous day.
Also, as parties become familiar with encounters, it takes less and less time to complete.[ post edited by Tyren ]
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5907996 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 9:59:46 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! |
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Q u o t e:
How is a guild supposed to ever make progress in a zone when all they can do is clear the first few bosses before the zone resets on them?
Raid progression is not linear in ZG.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5908371 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 10:13:54 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! |
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Q u o t e:
You're right - this change doesn't affect a zone that you have on farm status. Where it hurts is for the zones that you're still trying to learn.
You push through the beginning of a new zone on the nights where you can rely on good attendance; the rest of the week is for learning the new fights. For groups that have their strongest nights just before the reset (Sunday/Monday), this change is very painful.
I would agree with you. And thank you also for your insight.
The guilds and raid parties in transition during the learning phase, and guilds that do the heaviest raiding on Monday nights will be the most affected. The best that I can do is not to say this isn't going to affect players' raid schedules, but to say the impact will be a great deal lighter than you may think.
Also, as mentioned several times, this does away with cascading, and discourages the stealing of instances.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5908686 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 10:32:05 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! |
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Q u o t e:
Guess what, nobody knows how to do the Temple of Ahn'Quiraj yet so everyone will be there on tuesday.
Then all you'd see is a big stone gate. And were there no event to open the gate, people would all have been there on Tuesday regardless of what raid system were in place.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5909084 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 10:38:40 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! |
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Aiynan, only BWL, MC, and AQ40 will be on a 7 day timer. Onyxia will be a 5 day timer, and ZG and AQ20 will be on 3 day timers.
To help players, we are planning on a text webpage to list when each reset will occur.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5909265 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 10:43:26 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! |
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Q u o t e:
I think you're just twisting our words. We're referring to when AQ opens, and you can actually play AQ.. not the pre-opening "stare at the stone gate" stage. Which will take a few weeks to get through anyway.
The point is, once AQ does open on the server, every major guild that can take it will be in there every Tuesday night and starting their instance to get maximumn learning out of it.
Under current system, AQ gate open.. every guild has their own raiding schedule. Some start Sunday, some Saturday, some Tuesday, some Monday.... everyone has their freedom of choice. With the new system, we don't, if we want to be "serverwide-first" we gotta be in there every Tuesday.
My point is that the guilds who feel that they must be first on their server, will be there the minute it opens, whether there is a raid calendar in place or not.
But for most guilds, as we saw with Blackwing Lair, will still need to get a handle BWL before they can make a dent in AQ40, as it was with the transition from MC to BWL.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5909393 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 11:39:17 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! |
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This is what would be known as the "looking for blood" portion of the thread.
Where anything I say at this point would only fuel the fires. I can keep making statements, but ultimately, the best method of resolving the issue is to see how the system works out, rather than being angry over something that has yet to be seen in action.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5910605 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 11:58:36 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! |
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How do you expect smaller guild to be able to learn new encounters when thier playerbase is logged in on the weekends mostly? This change will without any doubt slow thier pace.
Please provide a specific question. That covers a broad range of situations. Are you talking about learning MC for example, or ZG, or BWL, or AQ, etc. And what's on farm status for that guild, if any?
Have you considered the side affects of this on ZG/AQ20 raiding? With the reset day changing constantly, scheduling for it will be impossible.
First, we will create a webpage to lay out what the reset dates will be. And with the coming of more raid zones, a standard reset date will make it much easier for players to know who is locked into what zone at what time. That way, you know that you'll both be free to join the same ZG group at a particular time. There will be adjustments, but there will also be things that are much easier to manage.
How are you going to force every raiding guild to conform to your schedule? When you stagger the reset times, you have a full week for each instance, not 7 days for ALL the instances.
Not every zone will take a full week. If you need a full week on BWL, you are probably already well able to take on MC, perhaps all in 1 night.
Why is this the first time you have attempted to punish the cascaders, and why must everyone suffer? There have been complaints upon complaints on this issue, and you have been silent up until now. Please explain further.
This is not the first time, bans have occurred, and continue to occur. Ultimately, the designers felt the best solution to the problem was to change the way the system worked.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5910951 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 12:06:20 PM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! |
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Q u o t e:
You couldn't have posted this 429 replies ago?
A good answer often times depends on a good question. Lets talk about the issue in a rational, well-thought out fashion. But if the question is predicated with: "You are an idiot," then clearly that doesn't help the situation on anyone's side.
Hell, I didn't make this change, but I do want to help our players understand the change that was made. I believe the designers are the best out there, and if they feel this change is necessary, then it is necessary. I'm not going to question the success of WoW by believing I know how to make a better game.
Players, also realize we've seen this kind of reaction before with rest bonus, durability, the implementation of the honor system without DKs, and then with the addition of DKs. Ultimately, you have to see it in action.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5911130 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 11:58:36 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! *edited post* |
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How do you expect smaller guild to be able to learn new encounters when thier playerbase is logged in on the weekends mostly? This change will without any doubt slow thier pace.
Please provide a specific question. That covers a broad range of situations. Are you talking about learning MC for example, or ZG, or BWL, or AQ, etc. And what's on farm status for that guild, if any?
Have you considered the side affects of this on ZG/AQ20 raiding? With the reset day changing constantly, scheduling for it will be impossible.
First, we will create a webpage to lay out what the reset dates will be. And with the coming of more raid zones, a standard reset date will make it much easier for players to know who is locked into what zone at what time. That way, you know that you'll both be free to join the same ZG group at a particular time. There will be adjustments, but there will also be things that are much easier to manage.
How are you going to force every raiding guild to conform to your schedule? When you stagger the reset times, you have a full week for each instance, not 7 days for ALL the instances.
Not every zone will take a full week. If you need a full week on BWL, you are probably already well able to take on MC, perhaps all in 1 night.
Why is this the first time you have attempted to punish the cascaders, and why must everyone suffer? There have been complaints upon complaints on this issue, and you have been silent up until now. Please explain further.
This is not the first time, bans have occurred, and continue to occur. Ultimately, the designers felt the best solution to the problem was to change the way the system worked.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5910951 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 12:06:20 PM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
You couldn't have posted this 429 replies ago?
A good answer often times depends on a good question. Lets talk about the issue in a rational, well-thought out fashion. But if the question is predicated with: "You are an idiot," then clearly that doesn't help the situation on anyone's side.
Hell, I didn't make this change, but I do want to help our players understand the change that was made. I believe the designers are the best out there, and if they feel this change is necessary, then it is necessary. I'm not going to question the success of WoW by believing I know how to make a better game.
Players, also realize we've seen this kind of reaction before with rest bonus, durability, the implementation of the honor system without DKs, and then with the addition of DKs. Ultimately, you have to see it in action.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5911130 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/22/2005 10:38:40 AM PST
Subject: Re: Petition: NO raid reset change on 1.9! *edited post* |
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Aiynan, only BWL, MC, and AQ40 will be on a 7 day timer. Onyxia will be a 5 day timer, and ZG and AQ20 will be on 3 day timers.
To help players, we are planning on a text webpage to list when each reset will occur.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5907331&p=#post5909265 |
