Poster: Splitwyld at 11/18/2005 10:16:37 AM PST
Subject: Tier 2 model boredom.... |
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As I had anticipated (my main being a hunter) the concept art was not really anywhere close to the end product. As is the same for many of the sets. Mainly the fact that the *only* "new" models are for the helm, and shoulders. that's it. that's all. The concept art for many of these had all sorts of flared spikes and ridges and designs on them. Like always, they take a boring old defualt armor model and slap on some new textures, the end result looking like any other set of armor with new helm and shoulders. With all due respect, why do the armor models (minus helm/shoulders) always seem so lazily done?
Q u o t e:
eat a bag of hell. i am serious.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5849158 |
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Poster: Tyren at 11/18/2005 10:20:53 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... |
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Players, we went to great lengths to get approval to show both the concept art and the 3d models for the tier 2 sets. You'll notice we very rarely show such art.
Truly, this is one of those things that may not get repeated if the feeling is that the community doesn't really care to preview them, or are outright upset by the previews.
So at least for my sake, I'd like to know the thoughts of posters who actually enjoyed the artwork!
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5849233 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/18/2005 10:32:07 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... |
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Art is one of those things that don't generally get changed after it is rolled out.
If a cool idea comes out based on feedback about current model sets, then more often than not, it would be used on a future set (and yes, there will be even higher tiers of armor sets later on).
But from a personal standpoint, I was completely floored by all the armor sets, and wanted to know if there was anyone out there that shared the view point. :)
I realize that community managers represent support staff of World of Warcraft, but we also want to spur discussions in the community, and not just lock negative posts.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5849525 |
Poster: Tyren at 11/18/2005 10:42:07 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... |
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Q u o t e:
I wish the CM's could answer the question that's really being asked here, which I originally posted. I'm sorry if you think i hate your models, but I don't. I think they're great.
MY POINT, originally, was "why do all sets look like (as someone previously said) saran wrap? no bump mapping or unique features aside from texture changes? That's all I was asking, This thread was not made to troll or flame your dev team's models. Please Tyren, re-read and stop mis understanding what people here are trying to point out. We're more appreciative of your work than you think
You are right. I was just storing up all the threads on the topic, rather than focusing on answering the specific question.
The answer is that there isn't a great deal of flexibility in terms of asthetic for the chest or legs.
Partly it's because the models have to fit many different body shapes, and also because the animations would look quite awkward if there was a lot of modeling involved.
But you do make an interesting observation on the underlaying theme of this set, and it'd be a good topic to ask about with the artists. :)
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5849792 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 11:15:08 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... |
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I'm going to put on my "artist hat" and explain why you didn't see raised scales on the Dragonstalker, as well as other "different models" for body armor.
If you haven't noticed, we add geometry to a model for the following pieces consistently: helm, shoulders, and cloak. Gloves and boots sometimes have geometry added, sometimes not. The chest, legs, bracers, etc. are textures only on every single piece, honestly, with the exception of robes -- and even that is just one skirt model per race/gender combo. That's it.
To add armor that is actually geometry built onto the character requires a lot of consideration for how animations work and how the models sit -- and would possibly require a large overhaul of the current models in game. It's not something we do currently. Will we do it in the future? Perhaps, but for now please don't be surprised that we don't utilize this option; we haven't since launch, and these armor sets are no different. I'm sorry if you were expecting something more, but that isn't how our armor is built at this point.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5850626 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 11:21:52 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... |
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Q u o t e:
But cay its not the model that is bad it is the colors. Look in the suggestion forums there are a lot of good ideas. I think you will find the mjaority of hunter don't like the bright purple. Make it another dark color. Just please let the gold trim stand out. It shoulu be a simple change just change out the color pallette and leave the models the same.
I will also tell you that these models are final. These are the pieces going in 1.9. I am sorry if they're not to your liking, but unfortunately art is very, very subjective. What is one man's mess is another man's masterpiece.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5850797 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 11:34:26 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... |
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Q u o t e:
BUMP MAPPING!
Seriously, Cay. Bump mapping. Start using it. You can make a piece of paper like a mountain with nothing more than a simple bump map overlay (ok, exageration). It doesn't require building geometry (though it helps) all it requires is some shading underneath the normal texture to give some depth. That is exactly what is needed on many of these pieces to kick them up from "decent" to "exactly what the artist envisioned".
Bump mapping!
That, again, requires a significant engine change -- that's not something we can simply snap our fingers and do. I'm sure you've noticed that World of Warcraft is designed to be run on slightly less-than-current machines, and such an addition would bump up the requirements quite a bit. That's like saying "MORE POLYS!" Well, yes, it makes the game look better, but there are other considerations as well.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5851163 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 11:44:37 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... |
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Q u o t e:
Add a check box under video options. :)
I understand, respect, and appreciate Blizzard's insistance that we need not have an uber rig to run WoW. Don't you think it wouldn't hurt to have options avaliable for people who *DO* have good ones, though?
Quite a few games out there have entirely seperate character/armor models for people with older computers.
Now, I know, that's a significant investment and a decent ammount of resources. But... seriously? I think it's 100% worth it (of course, i'm not a dev or even a programmer ~_^ ). That one thing would seriously make so much more possible in this game, and it's not *that* much of a resource hog.
But it would require an engine overhaul, which is not something planned for a long while. :P
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5851444 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 12:01:44 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... |
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Q u o t e:
Judgement = Plate.
Robe = Plate??? How is that possible?
The robe is covering the plate leggings underneath. Layers.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5851857 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 1:14:54 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... |
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Q u o t e:
The CMs here had nothing to do with the peek. A PLAYER found the pictures on the Korean site and linked them here.
The CMs for the US have nothing whatsoever to do with us seeing these graphics, which again leads me to the question why isn't this information shown to us in a language most of us can read ?
edit: now the information has been updated for us
Mmmmhm.
So we certainly didn't go to the team and say "Hey, I think the players would really get a kick out of seeing all the models before we patch them in," right? ;)
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5853466 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 1:32:09 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... |
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Q u o t e:
Not as near as I can tell.
I have no idea what if any influence you have on the boards/sites outside of the US. The previews are now shown on the US site, however the CMs were commenting on this thread before those previews were up on the US site. Which is my point entirely. You Cay and Ey and whoever else the US CMs are did not make these graphics available to us. Another player did initially.
This stuff was released in another part of the world which an enterprising player went and found and then posted the links for us. A blizz rep did not do it.
And has been stated several times and there has been no reply yet, you (collective you) also implied that if we didn't say we liked the models we wouldn't be shown previews of the art before it was live in game.
This shows extremely poor customer service and a bad attitude in general. If that is not how the comments were meant to be taken then the CM who posted them should come back and save some face and explain what they meant.
The previews were prepared by the US Web Team, actually. There was a delay on our end that unfortunately caused the update to show later here than others. I apologize if you feel this inconvenienced you; it was slated for simultaneous launch, but there was a technical issue.
I apologize for Tyren's post -- he was not having the best of days and was a little irritated that work was done to show you folks the concept art only to have the community become extremely angry and say many things that were hardly constructive.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5853861 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 11:15:08 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... *edited post* |
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I'm going to put on my "artist hat" and explain why you didn't see raised scales on the Dragonstalker, as well as other "different models" for body armor.
If you haven't noticed, we add geometry to a model for the following pieces consistently: helm, shoulders, and cloak. Gloves and boots sometimes have geometry added, sometimes not. The chest, legs, bracers, etc. are textures only on every single piece, honestly, with the exception of robes -- and even that is just one skirt model per race/gender combo. That's it.
To add armor that is actually geometry built onto the character requires a lot of consideration for how animations work and how the models sit -- and would possibly require a large overhaul of the current models in game. It's not something we do currently. Will we do it in the future? Perhaps, but for now please don't be surprised that we don't utilize this option; we haven't since launch, and these armor sets are no different. I'm sorry if you were expecting something more, but that isn't how our armor is built at this point.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5850626 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 11:21:52 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
But cay its not the model that is bad it is the colors. Look in the suggestion forums there are a lot of good ideas. I think you will find the mjaority of hunter don't like the bright purple. Make it another dark color. Just please let the gold trim stand out. It shoulu be a simple change just change out the color pallette and leave the models the same.
I will also tell you that these models are final. These are the pieces going in 1.9. I am sorry if they're not to your liking, but unfortunately art is very, very subjective. What is one man's mess is another man's masterpiece.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5850797 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 11:34:26 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
BUMP MAPPING!
Seriously, Cay. Bump mapping. Start using it. You can make a piece of paper like a mountain with nothing more than a simple bump map overlay (ok, exageration). It doesn't require building geometry (though it helps) all it requires is some shading underneath the normal texture to give some depth. That is exactly what is needed on many of these pieces to kick them up from "decent" to "exactly what the artist envisioned".
Bump mapping!
That, again, requires a significant engine change -- that's not something we can simply snap our fingers and do. I'm sure you've noticed that World of Warcraft is designed to be run on slightly less-than-current machines, and such an addition would bump up the requirements quite a bit. That's like saying "MORE POLYS!" Well, yes, it makes the game look better, but there are other considerations as well.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5851163 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 11:44:37 AM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Add a check box under video options. :)
I understand, respect, and appreciate Blizzard's insistance that we need not have an uber rig to run WoW. Don't you think it wouldn't hurt to have options avaliable for people who *DO* have good ones, though?
Quite a few games out there have entirely seperate character/armor models for people with older computers.
Now, I know, that's a significant investment and a decent ammount of resources. But... seriously? I think it's 100% worth it (of course, i'm not a dev or even a programmer ~_^ ). That one thing would seriously make so much more possible in this game, and it's not *that* much of a resource hog.
But it would require an engine overhaul, which is not something planned for a long while. :P
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5851444 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 12:01:44 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Judgement = Plate.
Robe = Plate??? How is that possible?
The robe is covering the plate leggings underneath. Layers.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5851857 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 1:14:54 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
The CMs here had nothing to do with the peek. A PLAYER found the pictures on the Korean site and linked them here.
The CMs for the US have nothing whatsoever to do with us seeing these graphics, which again leads me to the question why isn't this information shown to us in a language most of us can read ?
edit: now the information has been updated for us
Mmmmhm.
So we certainly didn't go to the team and say "Hey, I think the players would really get a kick out of seeing all the models before we patch them in," right? ;)
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5853466 |
Poster: Caydiem at 11/18/2005 1:32:09 PM PST
Subject: Re: Tier 2 model boredom.... *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Not as near as I can tell.
I have no idea what if any influence you have on the boards/sites outside of the US. The previews are now shown on the US site, however the CMs were commenting on this thread before those previews were up on the US site. Which is my point entirely. You Cay and Ey and whoever else the US CMs are did not make these graphics available to us. Another player did initially.
This stuff was released in another part of the world which an enterprising player went and found and then posted the links for us. A blizz rep did not do it.
And has been stated several times and there has been no reply yet, you (collective you) also implied that if we didn't say we liked the models we wouldn't be shown previews of the art before it was live in game.
This shows extremely poor customer service and a bad attitude in general. If that is not how the comments were meant to be taken then the CM who posted them should come back and save some face and explain what they meant.
The previews were prepared by the US Web Team, actually. There was a delay on our end that unfortunately caused the update to show later here than others. I apologize if you feel this inconvenienced you; it was slated for simultaneous launch, but there was a technical issue.
I apologize for Tyren's post -- he was not having the best of days and was a little irritated that work was done to show you folks the concept art only to have the community become extremely angry and say many things that were hardly constructive.
It's dark.
You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=5849158&p=#post5853861 |
