Poster: Shadovv at 10/22/2005 3:04:47 AM PDT
Subject: Gnomes shouldnt be able to be warriors.. |
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it doesnt make sense
this tiny little man wielding a big weapon successfully...
now we agree that a tauren ROUGE wouldnt make sense, and hence THEY ARE NOT POSSIBLE
the same should be for gnomes
if nothing else, it would balance the factions for class choices
That's right, you should have rolled a shaman.
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Poster: Caydiem at 10/22/2005 3:45:50 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Gnomes shouldnt be able to be warriors.. |
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Ahh, Gnome Warriors.
Why do they exist? There are reasons.
First, understand that, as it stands, every race in Azeroth can pick up a sword and fight the good fight. It doesn't require much in the way of born ability, as does, say, magical aptitude or a natural dexterity. It doesn't require faith. All it requires is the willingness to take up a sword and shield and learn how to take a blow. It's very much a "basic" class in that sense, and all races have their foot soldiers, their infantry. That is the Warrior.
Now, how is it that Gnomes specifically work? How is it that they survive just as well as a Tauren? Think about the Gnome race carefully. They are intelligent and analytical -- keen strategists, too. Planning war can come quite naturally to a Gnome. Through study, as well as a healthy amount of trial and error, the Gnome can learn to compensate for many of their weaknesses. An orc, for example, might just brace himself when he sees a blow coming; a Gnome, on the other hand, would calculate the trajectory and position his body and shield in order to deflect the brunt of the strike. They may not have much strength in their limbs, but they can compensate by striking at a monster's weakest points they discovered through field research. A Gnome may not be the most imposing of figures, but they should not be underestimated.
Now, Tauren Rogues... there are reasons why they do not exist. First, they are not built for the Rogue way of life. They are bulky creatures with loud, clopping hooves that don't lend themselves well to stealth. Too, I ask you to look at the Tauren as they are, in their city open to the air and elements -- a Rogue's secretive way of thinking simply isn't something they'd easily adhere to. They prefer to be more open about their dealings; it would shame their ancestors to be skulking about like a thief.
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
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Poster: Caydiem at 10/22/2005 3:49:37 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Gnomes shouldnt be able to be warriors.. |
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Q u o t e:
I'd still expect a Gnome warrior to be knocked about 10 meters away when smashed by a two-handed mace. :O
Nope. Deflected with careful calculations at lightning speed. :D
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
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Poster: Caydiem at 10/22/2005 3:53:13 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Gnomes shouldnt be able to be warriors.. |
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Q u o t e:
I don't care how intelligent or analytical someone is, a 2 ft gnome is not gonna be able to swing a 50lb axe and carry around hundreds of pounds of armor
So the weights are listed on the items for you, then?
Funny, isn't it, how Gnome weapons seem... smaller... than when they're in the hands of, say, a Human.
I wonder why that is?
Perhaps... they wield weapons of a weight that would be most advantageous to their particular limits in strength? :)
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
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Poster: Caydiem at 10/22/2005 3:57:01 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Gnomes shouldnt be able to be warriors.. |
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Q u o t e:
well a reaper takes the same amount of materials for a tauren as it does for a gnome =)
Yep. No one said differently. Remember, however, that Gnomes do have Shrink Ray technology, as Elhan said above. As any craftsman knows, working smaller can be very, very difficult, and the quality of the item can suffer. Naturally Gnomes still want the best, so they can easily have things made full size and then shrink them.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
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Poster: Caydiem at 10/22/2005 4:01:13 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Gnomes shouldnt be able to be warriors.. |
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Q u o t e:
Hmm, and Gnomes ARE built to be Warriors with their 3' tall bodies and their 6' long swords?
They can compensate for their physical weaknesses, as I stated.
Tauren could, also, in some regard, though it's more difficult. Sneaking through a corridor becomes a lot harder when you're taking up the entire width. Hooves can be muffled, but you lose significant maneuverability with a lack of strong footing -- something a Rogue would miss severely. However, remember that physical challenges were not the only reason given. Tauren would not ascribe to the Rogue lifestyle. They live a much more open and honest way than practically any other race; it's not in their nature. The closest they come is the Druid, and what stealth they have comes from being close to the spirit of the cat rather than any desire to be secretive.
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
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Poster: Caydiem at 10/22/2005 4:07:03 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Gnomes shouldnt be able to be warriors.. |
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Q u o t e:
I've often thought about why there is no Gnome Priests, would be one in a heartbeat. Is this related to some sort of lore of why no Gnome Priests are around now?
Gnomes are, as I've stated, very analytical thinkers. Their school of thought is "I'll believe it when I see it." The many adventuring ways of the Gnome can all be researched through careful study and experimentation -- magic included.
However, the Priest operates on a different level; they rely on their faith to guide them and grant them the power to aid their allies and smite their foes. Faith. Now, faith can't be seen, or heard, or touched, or measured, or quantified in any capacity with which Gnomes would be satisfied. While observing a Priest, they may note that the subject mutters a few words, closes their eyes, pushes their palm outward and becomes suffused with holy light; but a researcher following those exact same steps would achieve nothing whatsoever. Why? Because there would be no faith, no belief, driving the action.
Because this lifestyle is entirely centered around an unconfirmed power that cannot be quantified in any satisfactory manner, the Gnomes have washed their hands of even trying. :P
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
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Poster: Caydiem at 10/22/2005 4:09:37 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Gnomes shouldnt be able to be warriors.. |
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Q u o t e:
Cay, in a world where you can dance in front of someone's face and not be seen when 'stealthed', concepts like bulkiness have no place in the feasability of rogueish races.
Then people shouldn't be bringing up Gnome Warriors being ridiculous, by your logic, eh? ;)
This is a pseudologic post, my friend. Questions are being asked and answered. Your stance is just as valid, but it doesn't really apply to what's being asked here, heh.
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
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Poster: Caydiem at 10/22/2005 4:14:23 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Gnomes shouldnt be able to be warriors.. |
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Q u o t e:
However, no matter how many gnomes are annalytical, you will always get one who thinks differently out of every generation, and this one would end up believing in a diety. You see it in humans IRL, whos to say gnomes are incapable of such a feat?
Let's not start drawing real world parallels when it comes to faith, because there be dragons, and I would rather not have to lock/delete the thread, hm? :)
Gnomes are not Humans. Many Humans are not necessarily the best of analytical thinkers. There are all types. In fantasy games, due to the way we behave in real life, Humans are generally billed as the "diverse" race, allowing you to choose practically any class available due to their breadth.
That is not the case with Gnomes. They are analytical to a man. If, on the off chance, a Gnome did beat all odds and discover the Light, that one Gnome would be the extreme exception to the rule and wouldn't be playable in any case, since a world with hundreds of Gnomish Priests would ruin that whole exception bit.
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
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Poster: Caydiem at 10/22/2005 1:38:40 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Gnomes shouldnt be able to be warriors.. |
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Q u o t e:
Cay ever been to Stone Talon Peaks? The entrace from Barrens is full of NOTHING BUT TARUEN ROGUE NPCS. And if you want to get into the whole stealth issue Taurens are masters of nature and with the help of the earthmothers blessings there hooves can make less sound and they can blend with the woods themselves
Those are the Grimtotem Tribe, who are not of the same mind as the Taurens that are playable. Even then, they don't use stealth -- they're more thugs than anything else.
Folks, when it comes down to it, it's a fantasy game. The true, simple reason behind why Gnomes are Warriors is the philosophy that any race can pick up a sword and join the battle. Every race has an infantry. That's it.
But when you start postulating with pseudologic that may or may not apply in Azeroth, I have to respond in kind, because I enjoy such nonsensical sparring. In the end, however, both arguments are based on pseudologic and neither are wholly true. :)
So do keep debating, if you choose, but understand that Gnomes will always be Warriors and Tauren will probably never be Rogues. That's how the game stands, it does make sense in the world of Azeroth, and that's how it'll stay.
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
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Poster: Caydiem at 10/22/2005 1:50:05 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Gnomes shouldnt be able to be warriors.. |
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Q u o t e:
So now Cay backpeddles into making sense.. after starting a full blown flame war over nothing.
I'm glad she actually posted something well thought out this time.
It was hardly a flame war.
Understand that, when writing on a collaborative fantasy project, these sort of pseudologic debates happen all the time -- I personally find them great fun, as you never know what someone from a different walk of life will interject in an attempt to prove their point. ;)
Carpe Caydiem.
Seize the Cay.
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