Poster: Kiti at 8/16/2005 3:27:04 PM PDT
Subject: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? |
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Caydiem, why can't gnomes be paladins or priests?
Just curious. You are the lore expert, do you have the answer to this?
"Can I have your stuff?" - Eyonix
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4485593 |
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Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 3:40:59 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? |
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Gnomes are firmly grounded in the physical world. Their minds are wrapped around what they can see, hear, touch and tinker with. Their faith lies solely in what clever minds and dextrous hands can accomplish -- and with gnomes, that can be pretty grand (or extremely disastrous). Gnomes don't appeal to the Light or spend time in prayer to some power they can't perceive with earthly senses when they could be up to their elbows in grease, dirt, and innovation.
(The medics in Gnomeregan are just very, very skilled in First Aid. :P )[ post edited by Caydiem ]
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4485816 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 3:45:34 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? |
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Q u o t e:
Uhhh, Cay...
Can't they be mages and warlocks?
That doesn't require faith. That's intense study of elements and demonic powers with real, physical results, scientifically documented in any number of tomes.
With Priests and Paladins, so much relies on pure faith.
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4485873 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 3:53:10 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? |
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Q u o t e:
but its understandable that they can be warriors? doesnt that require dedication and rugged training, a form of faith?
also, why should something half my size with plate armor made proportionate for his pathetic body, be capable to tank general drakkisath as well as a human or night elf can?
That's quite a stretch on the Warrior rationale, friend. It's still a very physical enterprise -- training one's own body to be resilient and steadfast against the most malicious of foes. What the Gnomes believe in is the physical world, as I stated earlier, and Warriors qualify quite solidly.
Think of a Gnome Warrior as being able to take one or two blows, but being extremely skilled at avoiding damage. Keeping the attention of a monster, after all, would be easy for a Gnome -- look how many people are annoyed by their very presence. ;)
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4486000 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 5:45:31 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? |
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Tauren have Priests. They're called Druids. ;)
Tauren are lovers and caretakers of nature, but unlike their Night Elf cohorts, there is no goddess of Elune to watch over and guide the way of the Shu'Halo. They do have a patron of sorts, the Earth Mother -- but she is so tied in with the natural world that stuffy worship or prayer in some box is no proper way to pay her respect. It is in caring for her world, in promoting and preserving the natural order of things, that true devotion lies. And so the true "believers" of Tauren-kind choose the path of the Druid, that they may walk with the Earth Mother.
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487187 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 5:55:05 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? |
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Q u o t e:
Trolls: Can be priests and shaman.
Night Elves: Can be priests and druids.
Tauren: Can be druids and shaman.
You can not make sense of that.
Except if you imagine what a Tauren Priest would actually be doing in combat.
The biggest athiest in the world would come around if he saw me resurrect a dead body in front of him.
What do you quantify as "dead"? No pulse? People have been brought back from that, in real life as well as Azeroth. Ever hear of Goblin Jumper Cables? ;) Defibrillators aren't holy, but they can work.
I explained the Tauren factor, but I'll happily explain the others.
Shaman are attuned to the elemental spirits of the world. They command them to do their own bidding. While "natural", at its heart it deals with primal magics that the Night Elves would not touch; it both hearkens too close to the elemental workings of Mages, which the Kaldorei will go nowhere near, and is also a far more savage means of extracting and using power from the world, clashing with their worldview. Tauren can justify it because they do not have the first factor counting against them.
As for Trolls, they are not nature-lovers, but the raw elemental power of the spirits intrigues and attracts them, thus bringing them to the Shaman lifestyle. In the past, there have been several Trollish deities, such as Hakkar; they have faith and practice it.
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487274 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 6:04:29 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? |
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Q u o t e:
Aha... I do remember reading up somewhere that a Troll Shaman would command or coerce elemental spirits to do what he wanted...
But in reading Lord of the Clans, that just seems totally opposite! If Thrall or his tutor tried to force the spirits to do what he wanted, the power would just abandon them... nature wouldn't listen to them!
Maybe there's just several forms of shamanism, one which is more cooperative with nature, though still primal, and one which is more about strength of will.
EDIT: After all, Night Elves pray to Elune and get the job done... As do human and warven priests and paladins, who's power stems from the Light..
I'm not saying all Shamans view the world that way, but it's definitely more the Trollish way of doing things. The power of the Shaman lies in the elements and the spirits, a raw, fierce power that needs a strong will to direct it. How that is done is up to the individual, I suppose. ;)
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487350 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 6:07:55 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? |
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Q u o t e:
Sorry to correct you Cay, but according to the lore.
"Gnomes place their loyalty in themselves, in their friends and in their inventions. A few follow a loftier path and pay their respects to the Holy Light. Since the Ironforge dwarves' recent discovery of their Titanic origins, the gnomes think they too may be products of the Titans. This fact is very uncertain, however, if it is true, the gnomes as yet remain estranged from the ancestral powers."
So I don't see a gnomish priest too far outside the lore, hehe ^_^.
Perhaps there are a few -- no one is ever completely bound by their stereotype -- but those few are the exception to the rule, and aren't exactly evangelists since they're well aware their kin simply doesn't want to hear it. :P
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487381 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 6:27:21 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? |
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Q u o t e:
Im going into this doubting that blue will respond but here goes:
Why make gnomes a playable race? or even a race in wow period? How would something like that evolve and survive?
Next: how the hell does a 1-2 foot tall, 20-30 pound gnome warrior fight a 7-9 foot tall 500-600 pound tauren warrior??!?!?! We litterally could step on them, why did blizzard include a race like this??!!
Read through the whole thread. :P
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487556 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 5:45:31 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Tauren have Priests. They're called Druids. ;)
Tauren are lovers and caretakers of nature, but unlike their Night Elf cohorts, there is no goddess of Elune to watch over and guide the way of the Shu'Halo. They do have a patron of sorts, the Earth Mother -- but she is so tied in with the natural world that stuffy worship or prayer in some box is no proper way to pay her respect. It is in caring for her world, in promoting and preserving the natural order of things, that true devotion lies. And so the true "believers" of Tauren-kind choose the path of the Druid, that they may walk with the Earth Mother.
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487187 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 5:55:05 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Trolls: Can be priests and shaman.
Night Elves: Can be priests and druids.
Tauren: Can be druids and shaman.
You can not make sense of that.
Except if you imagine what a Tauren Priest would actually be doing in combat.
The biggest athiest in the world would come around if he saw me resurrect a dead body in front of him.
What do you quantify as "dead"? No pulse? People have been brought back from that, in real life as well as Azeroth. Ever hear of Goblin Jumper Cables? ;) Defibrillators aren't holy, but they can work.
I explained the Tauren factor, but I'll happily explain the others.
Shaman are attuned to the elemental spirits of the world. They command them to do their own bidding. While "natural", at its heart it deals with primal magics that the Night Elves would not touch; it both hearkens too close to the elemental workings of Mages, which the Kaldorei will go nowhere near, and is also a far more savage means of extracting and using power from the world, clashing with their worldview. Tauren can justify it because they do not have the first factor counting against them.
As for Trolls, they are not nature-lovers, but the raw elemental power of the spirits intrigues and attracts them, thus bringing them to the Shaman lifestyle. In the past, there have been several Trollish deities, such as Hakkar; they have faith and practice it.
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487274 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 6:04:29 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Aha... I do remember reading up somewhere that a Troll Shaman would command or coerce elemental spirits to do what he wanted...
But in reading Lord of the Clans, that just seems totally opposite! If Thrall or his tutor tried to force the spirits to do what he wanted, the power would just abandon them... nature wouldn't listen to them!
Maybe there's just several forms of shamanism, one which is more cooperative with nature, though still primal, and one which is more about strength of will.
EDIT: After all, Night Elves pray to Elune and get the job done... As do human and warven priests and paladins, who's power stems from the Light..
I'm not saying all Shamans view the world that way, but it's definitely more the Trollish way of doing things. The power of the Shaman lies in the elements and the spirits, a raw, fierce power that needs a strong will to direct it. How that is done is up to the individual, I suppose. ;)
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487350 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 6:07:55 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Sorry to correct you Cay, but according to the lore.
"Gnomes place their loyalty in themselves, in their friends and in their inventions. A few follow a loftier path and pay their respects to the Holy Light. Since the Ironforge dwarves' recent discovery of their Titanic origins, the gnomes think they too may be products of the Titans. This fact is very uncertain, however, if it is true, the gnomes as yet remain estranged from the ancestral powers."
So I don't see a gnomish priest too far outside the lore, hehe ^_^.
Perhaps there are a few -- no one is ever completely bound by their stereotype -- but those few are the exception to the rule, and aren't exactly evangelists since they're well aware their kin simply doesn't want to hear it. :P
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487381 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 6:27:21 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Im going into this doubting that blue will respond but here goes:
Why make gnomes a playable race? or even a race in wow period? How would something like that evolve and survive?
Next: how the hell does a 1-2 foot tall, 20-30 pound gnome warrior fight a 7-9 foot tall 500-600 pound tauren warrior??!?!?! We litterally could step on them, why did blizzard include a race like this??!!
Read through the whole thread. :P
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487556 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 3:40:59 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Gnomes are firmly grounded in the physical world. Their minds are wrapped around what they can see, hear, touch and tinker with. Their faith lies solely in what clever minds and dextrous hands can accomplish -- and with gnomes, that can be pretty grand (or extremely disastrous). Gnomes don't appeal to the Light or spend time in prayer to some power they can't perceive with earthly senses when they could be up to their elbows in grease, dirt, and innovation.
(The medics in Gnomeregan are just very, very skilled in First Aid. :P )[ post edited by Caydiem ]
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4485816 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 3:45:34 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Uhhh, Cay...
Can't they be mages and warlocks?
That doesn't require faith. That's intense study of elements and demonic powers with real, physical results, scientifically documented in any number of tomes.
With Priests and Paladins, so much relies on pure faith.
- Caydiem -
/moo
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4485873 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 3:53:10 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
but its understandable that they can be warriors? doesnt that require dedication and rugged training, a form of faith?
also, why should something half my size with plate armor made proportionate for his pathetic body, be capable to tank general drakkisath as well as a human or night elf can?
That's quite a stretch on the Warrior rationale, friend. It's still a very physical enterprise -- training one's own body to be resilient and steadfast against the most malicious of foes. What the Gnomes believe in is the physical world, as I stated earlier, and Warriors qualify quite solidly.
Think of a Gnome Warrior as being able to take one or two blows, but being extremely skilled at avoiding damage. Keeping the attention of a monster, after all, would be easy for a Gnome -- look how many people are annoyed by their very presence. ;)
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4486000 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 5:45:31 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Tauren have Priests. They're called Druids. ;)
Tauren are lovers and caretakers of nature, but unlike their Night Elf cohorts, there is no goddess of Elune to watch over and guide the way of the Shu'Halo. They do have a patron of sorts, the Earth Mother -- but she is so tied in with the natural world that stuffy worship or prayer in some box is no proper way to pay her respect. It is in caring for her world, in promoting and preserving the natural order of things, that true devotion lies. And so the true "believers" of Tauren-kind choose the path of the Druid, that they may walk with the Earth Mother.
- Caydiem -
/moo
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487187 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 5:55:05 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Trolls: Can be priests and shaman.
Night Elves: Can be priests and druids.
Tauren: Can be druids and shaman.
You can not make sense of that.
Except if you imagine what a Tauren Priest would actually be doing in combat.
The biggest athiest in the world would come around if he saw me resurrect a dead body in front of him.
What do you quantify as "dead"? No pulse? People have been brought back from that, in real life as well as Azeroth. Ever hear of Goblin Jumper Cables? ;) Defibrillators aren't holy, but they can work.
I explained the Tauren factor, but I'll happily explain the others.
Shaman are attuned to the elemental spirits of the world. They command them to do their own bidding. While "natural", at its heart it deals with primal magics that the Night Elves would not touch; it both hearkens too close to the elemental workings of Mages, which the Kaldorei will go nowhere near, and is also a far more savage means of extracting and using power from the world, clashing with their worldview. Tauren can justify it because they do not have the first factor counting against them.
As for Trolls, they are not nature-lovers, but the raw elemental power of the spirits intrigues and attracts them, thus bringing them to the Shaman lifestyle. In the past, there have been several Trollish deities, such as Hakkar; they have faith and practice it.
- Caydiem -
/moo
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487274 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 6:04:29 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Aha... I do remember reading up somewhere that a Troll Shaman would command or coerce elemental spirits to do what he wanted...
But in reading Lord of the Clans, that just seems totally opposite! If Thrall or his tutor tried to force the spirits to do what he wanted, the power would just abandon them... nature wouldn't listen to them!
Maybe there's just several forms of shamanism, one which is more cooperative with nature, though still primal, and one which is more about strength of will.
EDIT: After all, Night Elves pray to Elune and get the job done... As do human and warven priests and paladins, who's power stems from the Light..
I'm not saying all Shamans view the world that way, but it's definitely more the Trollish way of doing things. The power of the Shaman lies in the elements and the spirits, a raw, fierce power that needs a strong will to direct it. How that is done is up to the individual, I suppose. ;)
- Caydiem -
/moo
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487350 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 6:07:55 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Sorry to correct you Cay, but according to the lore.
"Gnomes place their loyalty in themselves, in their friends and in their inventions. A few follow a loftier path and pay their respects to the Holy Light. Since the Ironforge dwarves' recent discovery of their Titanic origins, the gnomes think they too may be products of the Titans. This fact is very uncertain, however, if it is true, the gnomes as yet remain estranged from the ancestral powers."
So I don't see a gnomish priest too far outside the lore, hehe ^_^.
Perhaps there are a few -- no one is ever completely bound by their stereotype -- but those few are the exception to the rule, and aren't exactly evangelists since they're well aware their kin simply doesn't want to hear it. :P
- Caydiem -
/moo
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487381 |
Poster: Caydiem at 8/16/2005 6:27:21 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Cay = Lore expert...can she help? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Im going into this doubting that blue will respond but here goes:
Why make gnomes a playable race? or even a race in wow period? How would something like that evolve and survive?
Next: how the hell does a 1-2 foot tall, 20-30 pound gnome warrior fight a 7-9 foot tall 500-600 pound tauren warrior??!?!?! We litterally could step on them, why did blizzard include a race like this??!!
Read through the whole thread. :P
- Caydiem -
/moo
|
| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4485593&p=#post4487556 |
