Poster: Aquasalt at 6/25/2005 10:14:46 PM PDT
Subject: Do CMs ever get sick of the restrictions? |
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I know you probably not even allowed to answer this question, but I thought you never know, does it ever get on your nerves that you can never engage us about anything in the game unless you get the go ahead first from someone else? Which usually takes you weeks, as you scurry back and forth trying to explain the players concerns to someone else who then goes away and tests those concerns then repeats taht testing to you, at which time you tell them that was not what it was about and to do the test this way to get the right results, which means they go away test again, come back and tell you the answer you can actually use.
Then, if its even worth it anymore, you either come back to the boards and tell us its working fine, or you tell us a fix will be upcoming.
Let me give you a perfect example, there was a rumour going around that if you Bubbled as a paladin you would lose all your Contribution Points.
It took atleast a week, despite this being a massive hot topic, before any sort of answer was given on it, thankfully it was a false rumour, but clearly waiting almost a week to find that out is hardly the best case scenario.
Just wondered if you ever wished you could just talk to us, why not debate with us about Shaman? The topic clearly is not going away, every day there are another 5 threads about how ridiculous they are, and every day another 5 Shaman are born as alts.
Yet, you can count the blue responses to the literally speaking, 100s of threads on the subject on one hand.
That means that after hundreds of threads, inc thousands of posts, the best we can get from Blizzard is like 3 answers, and none of them meaningful or engaging us at all. More likely one or two line comments.
Take a day or two out from your busy schedules and start to debate issues with us. Lets get down to the nitty gritty on a few of them and start to get somewhere rather then see the same things rehashed every day.
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3759648&p=#post3759648 | | | Poster: Caydiem at 6/25/2005 10:25:37 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Do CMs ever get sick of the restrictions? |
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The problem, Aquasalt, is that while we post on these accounts we are official representatives of Blizzard. Debate often includes personal opinion, and one can easily misconstrue our own opinions for that of Blizzard at large.
Too, when people are looking to "debate" with us in particular, it's in regards to design decisions and such. Some folks may be interested in what we think as players, but the majority want to debate the whys and wherefores of game aspects, and they want to hear the "official" angle from us. Since we didn't design the game (and the folks who did are busy continuing that process rather than debating on the forums) it makes such heated, opinionated discussions difficult.
I have, on occasion, spoken about my own personal play experience with my various characters (most notably in the Druid forum). While some are fine with it, others take my word to be Design Gospel, which is simply not the case. Just because I am not a Balance Druid, for example, does not mean that talent tree is being ignored by the developers, but there's the danger of that connection being drawn and perpetuated, which then leads to much rumor dispelling and such on our end.
I'm not sure what other sort of "debate" you're looking for on our end. The best example I have to give as far as us doing this is when I've spoken about live events -- the reason I was able to do so is my own extensive knowledge in the field and a firm confirmation of the developers' current stance on the subject. Without that confirmation or information, I'll be debating from my position as a player, not as a voice of Blizzard, and that's dangerous.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3759648&p=#post3759790 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/25/2005 10:36:50 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Do CMs ever get sick of the restrictions? |
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While you may desire the reasons behind such choices, they're not always available to give -- even after speaking with the design team.
The Community Team shares information with you folks when we have it. We question the development team daily with many topics from the forums. We speak with them quite often, but this does not guarantee a comprehensive response, even on a "hot" topic. We try to get information for you, but often times the repeated posts are just asking questions that we've already answered.
EDIT: And as we've said in the past, the developers do not design by popular opinion. They listen to feedback from the community, but they are under no obligation to design in accordance with that feedback.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3759648&p=#post3759899 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/25/2005 10:52:54 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Do CMs ever get sick of the restrictions? |
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Q u o t e:
Are they not under some obligation to explain it tho?
If they feel that certain aspecs are 'working as intended' yet there is a constant non-stop posting from the playerbase that is clearly not in agreement.
Would it not be beneficial to ALL to have an explantion of the reasoning?
As I stated, explanations are not always available -- and no, they're not under an obligation to explain why they've done what they've done to us. They normally will tell us if we ask, but it's not necessarily something we can share.
I know this may sound odd to you, but hear me out.
Let's say that Class A had ability X changed. We ask why, and they state that ability X has changed due to the upcoming feature Y. Now, we can't necessarily talk about the upcoming feature, so we cannot share the reason, thereby.
Other times, it's something simple that we've probably already said and folks don't necessarily want to hear again. Off the top of my head... "It was a bug." "It was not working as designed/intended." Or even.. "We simply felt the class is more balanced this way."
It's understandable to think that each and every change made to the game can be justified by lengthy paragraphs upon paragraphs of design theory, equations, and logic -- and in all honesty, they probably could. However, the developers do not necessarily have the time to commit all that to the written word or explain each and every design decision at length to us, as they're busy developing. ;)
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3759648&p=#post3760093 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/25/2005 10:54:09 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Do CMs ever get sick of the restrictions? |
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Q u o t e:
From my point of view Cay, if you could get an explaination to me, about why things are the way they are, i am more then willing to accept logic and forumulated arguments.
At the moment, we don't even have that, we don't know if the Developers are happy with Shaman, or if they are not. We don't know if there are any changes afoot. We don't know anything, cause we don't really get told anything.
I am sick of seeing Shaman posts, really sick to death of them, they all go the same way, Shaman do this to much, shaman points out some tiny descrepancy in the post, back and forth it goes for 15 pages with nothing resolved.
I would rather see Blizzard step up to the plate and just deal with the issue, if that means explaining to people why Blizzard feel Shaman are fine as they are, so be it. If it means warning shaman their nerf is coming, go for it, I am sure Shaman would like some input rather then just a random nerf at some point.
I'm sorry if you don't know this, but we have said several times in the past that the developers are more or less happy with the state of the Shaman as-is. This is a matter of repetition, as I've stated earlier.
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3759648&p=#post3760108 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/25/2005 11:30:12 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Do CMs ever get sick of the restrictions? |
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We never give you false information with intent to deceive you -- and yes, I sleep quite well at night knowing that, thanks. :)
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3759648&p=#post3760505 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/25/2005 10:25:37 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Do CMs ever get sick of the restrictions? *edited post* |
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The problem, Aquasalt, is that while we post on these accounts we are official representatives of Blizzard. Debate often includes personal opinion, and one can easily misconstrue our own opinions for that of Blizzard at large.
Too, when people are looking to "debate" with us in particular, it's in regards to design decisions and such. Some folks may be interested in what we think as players, but the majority want to debate the whys and wherefores of game aspects, and they want to hear the "official" angle from us. Since we didn't design the game (and the folks who did are busy continuing that process rather than debating on the forums) it makes such heated, opinionated discussions difficult.
I have, on occasion, spoken about my own personal play experience with my various characters (most notably in the Druid forum). While some are fine with it, others take my word to be Design Gospel, which is simply not the case. Just because I am not a Balance Druid, for example, does not mean that talent tree is being ignored by the developers, but there's the danger of that connection being drawn and perpetuated, which then leads to much rumor dispelling and such on our end.
I'm not sure what other sort of "debate" you're looking for on our end. The best example I have to give as far as us doing this is when I've spoken about live events -- the reason I was able to do so is my own extensive knowledge in the field and a firm confirmation of the developers' current stance on the subject. Without that confirmation or information, I'll be debating from my position as a player, not as a voice of Blizzard, and that's dangerous.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3759648&p=#post3759790 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/25/2005 10:36:50 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Do CMs ever get sick of the restrictions? *edited post* |
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While you may desire the reasons behind such choices, they're not always available to give -- even after speaking with the design team.
The Community Team shares information with you folks when we have it. We question the development team daily with many topics from the forums. We speak with them quite often, but this does not guarantee a comprehensive response, even on a "hot" topic. We try to get information for you, but often times the repeated posts are just asking questions that we've already answered.
EDIT: And as we've said in the past, the developers do not design by popular opinion. They listen to feedback from the community, but they are under no obligation to design in accordance with that feedback.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3759648&p=#post3759899 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/25/2005 10:52:54 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Do CMs ever get sick of the restrictions? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
Are they not under some obligation to explain it tho?
If they feel that certain aspecs are 'working as intended' yet there is a constant non-stop posting from the playerbase that is clearly not in agreement.
Would it not be beneficial to ALL to have an explantion of the reasoning?
As I stated, explanations are not always available -- and no, they're not under an obligation to explain why they've done what they've done to us. They normally will tell us if we ask, but it's not necessarily something we can share.
I know this may sound odd to you, but hear me out.
Let's say that Class A had ability X changed. We ask why, and they state that ability X has changed due to the upcoming feature Y. Now, we can't necessarily talk about the upcoming feature, so we cannot share the reason, thereby.
Other times, it's something simple that we've probably already said and folks don't necessarily want to hear again. Off the top of my head... "It was a bug." "It was not working as designed/intended." Or even.. "We simply felt the class is more balanced this way."
It's understandable to think that each and every change made to the game can be justified by lengthy paragraphs upon paragraphs of design theory, equations, and logic -- and in all honesty, they probably could. However, the developers do not necessarily have the time to commit all that to the written word or explain each and every design decision at length to us, as they're busy developing. ;)
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3759648&p=#post3760093 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/25/2005 10:54:09 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Do CMs ever get sick of the restrictions? *edited post* |
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Q u o t e:
From my point of view Cay, if you could get an explaination to me, about why things are the way they are, i am more then willing to accept logic and forumulated arguments.
At the moment, we don't even have that, we don't know if the Developers are happy with Shaman, or if they are not. We don't know if there are any changes afoot. We don't know anything, cause we don't really get told anything.
I am sick of seeing Shaman posts, really sick to death of them, they all go the same way, Shaman do this to much, shaman points out some tiny descrepancy in the post, back and forth it goes for 15 pages with nothing resolved.
I would rather see Blizzard step up to the plate and just deal with the issue, if that means explaining to people why Blizzard feel Shaman are fine as they are, so be it. If it means warning shaman their nerf is coming, go for it, I am sure Shaman would like some input rather then just a random nerf at some point.
I'm sorry if you don't know this, but we have said several times in the past that the developers are more or less happy with the state of the Shaman as-is. This is a matter of repetition, as I've stated earlier.
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3759648&p=#post3760108 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/25/2005 11:30:12 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Do CMs ever get sick of the restrictions? *edited post* |
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We never give you false information with intent to deceive you -- and yes, I sleep quite well at night knowing that, thanks. :)
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3759648&p=#post3760505 |
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