Poster: Deathcrusher at 6/10/2005 8:45:45 PM PDT
Subject: Hire Unbiased CMs |
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Q u o t e:
Er, the "pro-Druid" CM is me. Hi. Pretty sure I still have a job.
-Caydiem
QFT
Cna we have some unbiased CMs for the classes
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3527090&p=#post3527090 | | | Poster: Caydiem at 6/10/2005 8:57:17 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Hire Unbiased CMs |
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What precisely do you mean by "unbiased"?
We have to play the game to know it well, correct? Certainly you don't want a Community Team that cannot empathize with what you experience in game, who have no idea what an "instance" really is or how frustrating it can be when they're not working/crash, who have never been in the queue for Battlegrounds. Too, such knowledge helps us better relate to the developers what you're saying, since we have a proper frame of reference.
So, we've established that the Community Team needs to play the game.
Now, clearly, each member will have to pick a class at character creation. But what options do we have available to be "unbiased"?
A) Cheat characters up to 60 and play them all an equal amount? Well, that certainly doesn't help matters. After all, some players struggle through those mid-levels. The experience of levelling up, of poring over what talent you should get next, of scrimping for gold so you can have enough to train and buy your mount, would be completely lost with this method. There would be no attachment, no sense of achievement. This method would produce a Community Team that would be completely out of touch with how the game truly plays.
B) Level up nine characters together, spending equal time on every one? Considering that we also need time to do our jobs and sleep, not to mention other activities in a normal life, it would probably be years before we got such characters to level 60 and were able to play them in the high-end game. Any and all complaints of a lack of content in higher levels -- or any complaints about higher levels at all, really -- would be made to a team that simply wouldn't understand you. I fail to see how this would be an acceptable alternative.
So, being that we cannot have all nine classes running together at any one point, it falls to us to play the game as you play it. Players pick the classes they enjoy. They play the game from the ground up. They explore the dungeons, get great loot, and share their achievements with other people, whether in a pick up group or a standing guild. They grow with their characters, learning the ins and outs of what their class can do, experimenting, learning limitations. They try out other classes, noting the differences in strengths and weaknesses. They may try the other faction for a while to see how the other half lives. But they keep the attachment to their character, and when something happens to it, that means something to the player. They play the game as it's meant to be played...
...and so do we.
I fail to see how your suggestion would make a better Community Team, but I'm open to hear your side, now that I've explained mine.
EDIT: Also, just so you're aware, "QFT" means "Quoted for Truth"... that acronym, I do not think it means what you think it means. :)[ post edited by Caydiem ]
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3527090&p=#post3527191 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/10/2005 9:01:45 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Hire Unbiased CMs |
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Q u o t e:
Just out of interest, how many of the CMs have been involved with a serious attempt at Molten Core on live servers? Certain comments by at least one of you have lead me to think that some of you have not.
For my part, I haven't; I'm in a small guild and, while I've been 60, I haven't been to the Core yet. I'm attuned, just haven't gone.
...mind you, I had the opportunity last night, but sadly I had other things to attend to. :|
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3527090&p=#post3527230 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/10/2005 9:02:13 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Hire Unbiased CMs |
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Q u o t e:
Caydiem I was just talking about the "pro-druid" comment
So what is your meaning, precisely? Do feel free to expound. I'm curious. :)
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3527090&p=#post3527237 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/10/2005 9:20:00 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Hire Unbiased CMs |
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Okay, let me clarify then, Deathcrusher.
I like Druids. I play one. No, Vhasraine, I don't find them boring. This is my personal opinion. I am a person. I have an opinion. This happens.
I am a Community Manager. I present the feedback of the players to the development team. I will NOT say "Hey, you're still not changing Druid abilities in Warsong Gulch, right?" because that would be biased, even if only slightly. Rather, I say "The playerbase is concerned about the abilities Druids are utilizing in Warsong Gulch to capture the flag. Has there been any change in your stance based on what you've witnessed?"
I don't shun all other classes for Druids, I most CERTAINLY do not push for them to be remotely unbalanced in any possible way, and if there's a major issue, I bring it up to the developers regardless of what class it happens to surround. We split up class feedback tasks for efficiency, which is why you see me in the Hunter and Druid forums as opposed to Paladin and Mage, say, but this is due to knowledge as much as anything.
Is that more clear? I do not use my powers for evil. :P
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3527090&p=#post3527381 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/10/2005 9:26:12 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Hire Unbiased CMs |
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Q u o t e:
All i'd like to say is, hire someone who has and regularly playes a 60 paladin and doesn't confuse our combat spells with our buffs.
While we would happily invite diversity in class selection on our team (we do all have different classes as mains as-is), "Level 60 Paladin" is unfortunately not something that tends to find room on someone's resume. It certainly comes up when we interview, don't get me wrong, but I think we're going to rate being able to do the job well over being a level 60 Paladin when we fill the open position. ;)
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3527090&p=#post3527435 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/10/2005 9:30:19 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Hire Unbiased CMs |
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Q u o t e:
you told us(hunters) that the devs told you that attack buffs from certain abilites and items never worked on ranged....you clearly dont know the game. either that or you cant say anything against the company you work for which turns your job into Community handlers.
.....is only me that has this super magical ability to hold a job and be able to have different characters? i have hunters,a warrior, druids,a rogue and a few more. of course they are not all sixty but a played a them to a degree that i can tell you a few things about their tactic and so on. and im sure that im not the only one with this magical ability to hold different classes and a job. this is excuse does not go that far at all
and you know what? if you dont really have the time go ahead and"cheat" a few characters for a class to different lvls ok? so you can learn that they do at different points ok? because by the fifth time i was lvling a characters i pretty much had it down with this game, other than building different tactics because of the job its pretty much the same ok?
dont try to turn the game into rocket science, this game doesnt have half of the things other MMOS have. this game is not that difficult.
It is my job, Sesika, to relay information from the developers to you, and that is what I did in the case you cite. If you take issue with that, fine, but I must remind you that I am an official representative of Blizzard; I represent the company, often in its entirety when something like that is stated. I was doing the job I'm paid to do.
I have several characters over level 20, my Hunter being one of them, but I do have other things to do with my time, and recently my playtime has been (as ordered) focused on Battlegrounds.
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3527090&p=#post3527470 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/10/2005 9:32:37 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Hire Unbiased CMs |
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Q u o t e:
So you're saying that me and my class is stuck with a CM who doesn't know anything about the class?
What I am saying is just what I said, Uthros, no more.
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3527090&p=#post3527489 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/10/2005 9:35:41 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Hire Unbiased CMs |
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Q u o t e:
Cay, I know they angered you but honestly, stop feeding the trolls.
Eh, it's late, I'm technically off work. I'm bandying words. ;)
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3527090&p=#post3527519 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/11/2005 9:04:07 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Hire Unbiased CMs |
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Q u o t e:
Actually thats not biased. The only difference is the level of professionalsim, one sounds like your asking your roommate and the other sounds like your asking a coworker.
An example of bias would be if you said:
"Its important not to change druid shapeshifting within Warsong."
That statement is based upon PERSONAL feeling, which are central to being biased.
Incorrect, actually. Wording something in such a leading way as I did with the first quote is in fact a biased method of asking -- it's far easier to just answer "right" to the first, as opposed to the more neutral second quote. I do know my job, thanks. ;)
EDIT: I'd also like to remind people that the "pro-Druid" term was NOT my choice of wording -- I was quoting the original poster in that thread.[ post edited by Caydiem ]
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3527090&p=#post3532334 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/11/2005 9:08:16 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Hire Unbiased CMs |
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Q u o t e:
Tell me how in the world could you have even a vague empathy for my experience in the game. Do you play a paladin? Do you even play alliance? So how in the world could you ever empathize with me when you have no idea where I'm coming from. None of you do. You all play Horde.
Take a look at each class forums, and see how this has played out. Where class boards a CM is interested, since they play the class, get so much more attention than other classes. Look at the desolate place called the paladin forums. Fangtooth quickly came in and raced out, never to be seen again. And that's after months of being kept in the dark of anything. Even when he took the time to acquire any feedback, there seemed to be a sense of astonishment by it. As though our plights were terribly surprising, and eyes were open to things unimaginable about the class. Did you at Blizzard really consider things in the paladins little corner all blue skies, lollypops, and good times while poor druids are so in a hurt?
Why should druids and hunters get so much care while other classes are left in the dark? Why should only the select few get any kind of contact or interaction with a person. You may not be "required" to do such things, but when things such as this occure, even if not intentional, how can it be construed as anything but biasness? Can you not see the dilemma in that?
We know you are players, but in this forum you are first and formost Community Managers FOR THE ENTIRE PLAYERBASE, not the select few who share your personal interests. This means that you need to advocate everybody, not just druids, not just hunters, everyone. And what you do here reflect upon that title. So yes, you don't have that freedom to be "just players". It sucks. But that's your job. That's what you're paid to do. And if you fail at that, when you fail to show you even give a damn or respect for portions of the playerbase, you'll be considered as bias plain and simple. And the result; a disgruntled, complaining community. And that's exactly what we're seeing in places like the Paladin forums.
Please do not patronize us. We know you do not have any experience in many of our own experiences. How can you? You never bother to show the slightest interest. So how can you really empathize with us? I challenge you to really role an alliance character, a paladin even, and really get to know the plights of the class, then maybe you can try to empathize with our experience in the game. If you're not willing to take that time, maybe someone who will needs to be hired instead.
I have a level 50 Alliance character. Not a Paladin, admittedly, but I am not solely Horde. Thanks for your suggestion. :)
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3527090&p=#post3532381 | Poster: Caydiem at 6/11/2005 10:15:20 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Hire Unbiased CMs |
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Q u o t e:
I'm sure if you put up a job description on your website and made it a requirement to have a 60 paladin in WoW as your main character you'd be flooded with resumes with people that have that qualification.
I've been a forum moderator before and been in a focus group that interacted closely with developers much the same way you do. I'm not sure of the legal issues blizzard faces but in SB the class reps were chosen from the community and I guess you could say paid with a free subscription to the game. Not sure if that works in blizzard's case but I think a move to try and better represent the classes and have more discussions with the developers and other class reps to flesh out ideas and work on overall balance would be a significant improvement to the way things work now.
We have no plans to have any sort of volunteer program due to the legal and managerial concerns surrounding them. I was referring to the Assistant Community Manager position posted on our job site.
- Caydiem -
Assistant Community Manager
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=3527090&p=#post3533181 |
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