Poster: Kadynce at 5/3/2005 3:50:53 PM PDT
Subject: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered |
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I know there are a lot of people out there that are wondering about certain aspects of the honor system, so here goes:
1) Are you (Blizzard) capping ranks so that players don't progress too fast through the ranks or can a player only gain a certain number of ranks (4) per week? With the same logic can one also only go down a certain number of ranks per week (4)?
2) I'm in hillsbrad and I rank 1 frost nova 10 players so that the other members of the hillsbrad shuffle can catch up to help kill them all. I have effectively done about 20 damage to all of them. I receive Honorable Kills and the associated Contribution points for the kill (virtually none since I only did 20 damage to them all). Later the same day I see one of those 10 players at Felwood and kill him 1 on 1. Do I receive a full contribution point penalty due to me doing 20 damage to him in hillsbrad earlier that day?
3) I head out to blackrock mountain for some PvP and decide to start a raid of 10 players. Eight of the 10 are guildies but we needed an extra mage and priest to finish the group. For the 8 guildies this is our first time to PvP for the day, for the outsourced mage and priest they have been PvPing all day and have undoubtedly tapped every player we are about to kill in our future earlier in the day. Does the whole raid receive diminishing returns on those kills or just the two players that have killed them earlier in the day?
4) You have said that Contribution points work a lot like Experience points. With this in mind is there an inherent penalty for being in a raid group (-50%)? Another way of asking this question is if there are 5 players in a regular group and then decide to make it a raid group but there are still only 5 players in the raid, will they receive a penalty to contribution points?
I think the above questions are a good start and will help us all out in really understanding how the honor system works. Thanks for your time.
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Poster: Tyren at 5/5/2005 9:45:32 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered |
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1) Are you (Blizzard) capping ranks so that players don't progress too fast through the ranks or can a player only gain a certain number of ranks (4) per week? With the same logic can one also only go down a certain number of ranks per week (4)?
Yes, there is a maximum progression which can be achieved in 1 week. I am uncertain that there is a number associated with the amount of ranks you can receive. No, decay is a great deal slower than growth.
2) I'm in hillsbrad and I rank 1 frost nova 10 players so that the other members of the hillsbrad shuffle can catch up to help kill them all. I have effectively done about 20 damage to all of them. I receive Honorable Kills and the associated Contribution points for the kill (virtually none since I only did 20 damage to them all). Later the same day I see one of those 10 players at Felwood and kill him 1 on 1. Do I receive a full contribution point penalty due to me doing 20 damage to him in hillsbrad earlier that day?
If you kill him solo the 2nd time, you would get 75% of the contribution points that that player gives total, meaning it would be greater than the CP you got on the first kill, but not as much as if you had killed him solo the first time.
3) I head out to blackrock mountain for some PvP and decide to start a raid of 10 players. Eight of the 10 are guildies but we needed an extra mage and priest to finish the group. For the 8 guildies this is our first time to PvP for the day, for the outsourced mage and priest they have been PvPing all day and have undoubtedly tapped every player we are about to kill in our future earlier in the day. Does the whole raid receive diminishing returns on those kills or just the two players that have killed them earlier in the day?
Just those two players, but if you are on a raid group, you shouldn't expect to earn many contribution points...
4) You have said that Contribution points work a lot like Experience points. With this in mind is there an inherent penalty for being in a raid group (-50%)? Another way of asking this question is if there are 5 players in a regular group and then decide to make it a raid group but there are still only 5 players in the raid, will they receive a penalty to contribution points?
Yep. Like xp points, CP in a raid group is very very small.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=2950237&p=#post2983455 |
Poster: Tyren at 5/5/2005 10:25:28 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered |
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Were a lot of people expecting to get more contribution points because they were grouped with 39 others?
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=2950237&p=#post2984288 |
Poster: Tyren at 5/5/2005 10:33:34 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered |
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There is no penalty for being in a raid group, per se.
But 100 CP divided by 40 ppl is going to be pretty small number.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=2950237&p=#post2984438 |
Poster: Tyren at 5/5/2005 1:12:17 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered |
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Q u o t e:
Tyren, my main problem is, WHY ARE CERTAIN REALMS ALLOWED TO ACHIEVE HIGHER RANKS THAN OTHERS? MANY REALMS ARE ALLOWED UP TO RANK 8, BUT SOME ARE CAPPED AT RANK 6 - THIS IN UNFAIR, UNBALANCED, AND BAISED
Why on earth would we pick out the realms we thought deserved to get to rank 8, and let others top off at rank 6?
It's the nature of the system, people on some realms just really really churned out a very high performance, and thus the rankings will reflect that.
I quote Kalgan here:
The progression is not limited by a fixed number of ranks, the progression simply becomes more difficult at higher ranks.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=2950237&p=#post2987739 |
Poster: Tyren at 5/5/2005 9:45:32 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered *edited post* |
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1) Are you (Blizzard) capping ranks so that players don't progress too fast through the ranks or can a player only gain a certain number of ranks (4) per week? With the same logic can one also only go down a certain number of ranks per week (4)?
Yes, there is a maximum progression which can be achieved in 1 week. I am uncertain that there is a number associated with the amount of ranks you can receive. No, decay is a great deal slower than growth.
Q u o t e:
Kalgan:
The progression is not limited by a fixed number of ranks, the progression simply becomes more difficult at higher ranks.
2) I'm in hillsbrad and I rank 1 frost nova 10 players so that the other members of the hillsbrad shuffle can catch up to help kill them all. I have effectively done about 20 damage to all of them. I receive Honorable Kills and the associated Contribution points for the kill (virtually none since I only did 20 damage to them all). Later the same day I see one of those 10 players at Felwood and kill him 1 on 1. Do I receive a full contribution point penalty due to me doing 20 damage to him in hillsbrad earlier that day?
If you kill him solo the 2nd time, you would get 75% of the contribution points that that player gives total, meaning it would be greater than the CP you got on the first kill, but not as much as if you had killed him solo the first time.
3) I head out to blackrock mountain for some PvP and decide to start a raid of 10 players. Eight of the 10 are guildies but we needed an extra mage and priest to finish the group. For the 8 guildies this is our first time to PvP for the day, for the outsourced mage and priest they have been PvPing all day and have undoubtedly tapped every player we are about to kill in our future earlier in the day. Does the whole raid receive diminishing returns on those kills or just the two players that have killed them earlier in the day?
Just those two players, but if you are on a raid group, you shouldn't expect to earn many contribution points...
4) You have said that Contribution points work a lot like Experience points. With this in mind is there an inherent penalty for being in a raid group (-50%)? Another way of asking this question is if there are 5 players in a regular group and then decide to make it a raid group but there are still only 5 players in the raid, will they receive a penalty to contribution points?
Yep. Like xp points, CP in a raid group is very very small.
Q u o t e:
Kalgan:
Although you do get the standard group bonus for contribution points for the first 5 players, the experience penalty that exists for raid groups does not apply to contribution points. This is the only inconsistency between the way the two systems modify the point values, however.
[ post edited by Tyren ]
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Poster: Tyren at 5/5/2005 1:20:04 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered |
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We encourage battles of all kind. Raid groups have no penalty, it's just that that's a lot of people to share a single kill with, as noted above.
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Poster: Tyren at 5/5/2005 1:27:48 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered |
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Q u o t e:
Then why is the #1 player on horde on Kil'Jaeden locked at rank six when he has over well over 200k contribution points?
Because X contribution points doesn't guarantee a certain rank.
As I said before, the same contribution points on 1 realm might mean an entirely different rank on another realm. It's based on PvP performance of your faction on your realm.
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Poster: Tyren at 5/5/2005 1:42:51 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered |
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Let me take a step back.
The honor system is very complicated, and we the community managers are still trying to learn the finer points.
When I said there is a maximum progression, I was not thinking of ranks. There is no cap for ranks in a given week, but much like if you were to say ask, "Can I get to level 60 in 2 hours?" The answer there is no, not because we limit how much exp you can gain per minute, but rather because of the confines of time & space.
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Poster: Tyren at 5/5/2005 1:46:46 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered |
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Q u o t e:
Tyren, will you ever address the question I had about the Honor System at the bottom of page 1 of this thread?
I have yet to see the benefit in the Honor System for casual gamers. I have seen no proof of any system enhancement to appeal the players who don't have hours each day to gain contribution points.
After all, one of the main selling points for Wow was that it caters to the casual gamer as well as the hardcore player. Should not all aspects of the game follow this idea?
If a casual player enjoys PvP gameplay, the PvP honor system has an incredible amount to offer. If anything, the ranking system is generous in allowing a wide range of performance receive ranks. After the first week, we had a lot of players asking they were of the same rank as someone who had a great deal less CP.
But if the question becomes, can a casual gamer compete to get the same ranks as a hardcore gamer, the answer there is no, a casual gamer cannot compete with a hardcore gamer.
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Poster: Tyren at 5/5/2005 1:50:56 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered |
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Q u o t e:
He isn't capped, he just hasn't earned the amount of CP needed to reach the highest ranks. I think the honor system is relational in its design...there is no fixed table of progression. It relies upon your CP, the CP of others in comparison, your level, the enemy's level, diminishing returns, grouping, etc. I think what everyone wants is a graph showing that if 'you have <amount of CP> to <amount of CP> you are this rank' and that isn't how it works.
Yes! Which is why it's difficult to take 1 person on any realm as an example and then extrapolate what the system is based on individual performance.
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Poster: Tyren at 5/5/2005 2:12:53 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered |
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Lets define what "casual" is.
I am a casual player. These days, I'm lucky if I get 1 hour of gametime in per day, and then on the weekends, I'm in a coma until Monday rolls around.
I am currently a Master Sergeant, and I believe I am 2 ranks below the top performers.
And that is with 1 hour of play time per day.
But, if a casual player is someone who might get a PvP kill occasionally because they happened to come across an enemy that took a bathroom break and forgot to log out, it's just not going to happen.
That being said, if you notice the PvP rewards are very good, but cost less money than an equivalent level item because we want to recognize that a lot of PvP gameplay went into getting the ranks to get that item. There is a balance, but if someone wants to get 1 kill per day and expects to do well, it just isn't going to happen.
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Poster: Tyren at 5/5/2005 2:15:04 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Honor System - Questions We Want Answered |
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And who are these people who got rank 8? I've yet to see evidence that this is so.
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| | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=2950237&p=#post2989039 |
