Poster: Famine at 4/14/2005 2:58:19 PM PDT
Subject: Constructive post to FIX Alchemy (help BLUE) |
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It is known thoughout many servers that Alchemists are widely used for their transmuting abilities, and handing out healing/mana pots. That is good, but with the fact that some or actually most of our potions can be dispelled that is not a good thing. This has scared numerous people away from this profession that could be so much more. First off I would like to illuistrate this thread from a previous thread.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=2552627&P=1
With that being done I would like to present my arguement to Caydiem, Fangtooth, Eyonix, Tyren, Ordinn, and Kalgan (Sorry if I forgot any other Blues out there that may read this.)
First off Eyonix said, and I quote
"Higher level Alchemy recipes include elixirs Rocher, which are no longer dispellable making their use more compelling in PvP situations, which in-turn makes Alchemy more viable. Unfortunately, potion effects can still be removed."
With this comment I researched all the potions and elixirs I could find using www.thottbot.com
These were my findings based on their Alchemy list:
Potions:27 (this does not include mana/healing pots since those are instant use)
Elixirs:33
Flasks:5
Total:65
Percent of dispellable potions: 42% (rounded up from 41.5)
***This total did not include any hp/mana/ rejuv/wildvine pots since those are instant use, nor did it include rage pots etc. which are also instant use.***
This means that in a PvP aspect when you use an alchemy item to "save your life" or "give you and edge" you have a 42% chance of that potion being dispelled and rendered useless in a matter of second or two, with almost no cost to the opposing player. This is very disheartening.
This can be applied in ganking situations where character A kills a creature, and character B from the opposing faction runs up to gank A. A drinks a protection potion to save his life and run away, and character B dispels it and kills him anyway. That just wasted 1 potion and the ingriedients it took to make it.
Next on my list is the fact that Herbs can be very expensive. These are some of the normal prices of high level herbs on my server when researched on the Auction House.
Mountains Silversage 1-2g each
Gromsblood 1-2g each
Sungrass 80s-1g each
Golden sansam 1-2g each
Kadghar's whisker 50s-80s each
Plaguebloom 75s-1g each
Arthas's tear 50s-75s each
Blindweed 50s-80s each
I can easily go to the Auction House and spend 20g on potions just for 1 high level instance/raid. This can become quite expensive very quickly. Also some of these herbs are not easy to find. Mountain Silversage is sort of rare. Sungrass is used in so many recipes that the nods it forms on are always being picked or farmed because an alchmist can never get enough of it. Gromsblood is rare, yes with the addition of Dire Maul it is slightly easier to obtain, but many of the nods in the instance (and not to mention the world as a whole) need to be fixed because no one can harvest them. (some are in trees, up in the air or down in the ground and are inaccessible, and yes I realize this happens to mining nodes too.)
Black lotus is another problem for alchemists. it is a BoP item so even if someone else finds it and harvests it, and cannot use it, it has gone to waste. Also they are REALLY RARE to find. In the entire time I have been playing at lvl 50+ (2 months) I have found 2 black lotus's. One I kept for myself, and later when I found another one I let my friend harvest it so we could each have one total. To this day it is still sitting in my bank because It is very hard to get any flask recipes. I have run UBRS LBRS and Strath and DM many times with only one flask recipe dropping in UBRS, which I lost the roll for.
So you finally got a flask recipe, congrats. Now all you have to do is go into Schoolmance and get to the end of the instance to use the --Alchemist Lab-- not to mention pack up all your herbs and take them with you (which is quite alot for flask recipes) and if your not in a guild run you have to convince your group to fight the boss that guards it, and deal with your group complaining about it, and/or wanting a flask potion in return for helping you (also do not forget your very rare black lotus for each flask recipe if you are lucky enough to find one, OR more.)
Lets not even start on the supposed "Alchemist's Stone" (used for some flask recipes) that many people say is really a Philosophers' Stone, or that its just so rare no one has seen it yet. Plus from what a few select people have shown from beta it is a BoP item so it cannot be traded.
The greater resist potions are extremely rare, plus they cost extra herbs to make, and an elemental item (making the actual cost of each potion about 2-5g or more depending on which elemental item it requires.) PLUS the fact that after spending on average (16g-25g or even 50g) for the recipe on the AH since they are such rare drops, the potion can be instantly dispelled in a PvP situation.
Finally we arrive at the improvements section of this post (almost done bear with me.)
1. Make potions that are used in PvP (this includes PvP agreements and server wide) only dispellable for a short amount of time. (30 seconds to 2 minutes) or increase the cost of dispel to make it more balanced, either by a huge mana cost that can only be used every 2-3 minutes or by a reagent that costs an equal amount to the price of the high level potions. Casting a very cheap mana spell and instantly causing an alchemist to lose a potion that took him 2-5g to make (or the time to harvest the herbs) and never getting the ability back is very unbalanced.
2. Increase the drop rates of ALL recipes. Many people normally get leatherworking patterns, tailoring, enchanting, blacksmithing and engineering, but alchemy patterns seem to drop the least of all of those.
3. Change Black Lotus from BoP to normal so it can be traded, this will make flasks be more popular. Also fix many of the herb nodes that are unharvestable throughout the world and in many instances so people can gain access to these badly needed herbs.
4. Make flasks easier to make by clarifying information and questions about the "Alchemist's Stone" (also increasing its drop rate) and increasing accessibility to an Alchemist's Lab besides the one that is at the back of Schoolmance because it is not time or cost effective to make 1 flask after going through the entire process of getting a Black Lotus, harvesting the herbs for the flask, THEN going through all of Schoolmance.
5. Increase the number of flasks you get when using them, one flask per conjuring is not worth it at all. Also make flasks BoE so that once they are used only that person who intially took the first drink can continue to use the remaining charges that are left (meaning a flask has charges ranging from like 2-5 and by using it, it becomes soulbound.)
6. Make flasks and elixirs (I will go so far as to say all potions) stay with you even after you are dead and resurrected again (unless you use a spirit healer in which you have not revived or picked up your corpse.) In all fairness make it decrease the timer on the potion by a fraction (such as 1/4 to 1/2.)
7. Come out with Alchemist ONLY recipes that are BoP. A prime example is from Faytte in the thread I mentioned above:
"A) make a series of high end potions only usable with alchemy skill. These potion buffs cannot be dispelled and dont disapear on death. Only one such potion can be activated at a time.
Potion of the Fang
+30 Str, 2% chance in melee of gaining an additional strike
Potion of the Asp
+30 Int, +20 mana regenerated every 10 seconds
Potion of the Cobra
+30 Agility, +2% to critical, +2% to dodge
Potion of Courage
10% chance to resist fear, sleep, and seduction effects.
Again only 1 can be active at a time, and using them would require Alchemy skill."
These could be different but he gave excellent examples that could help any and all character classes who use alchemy.
Overall I tried to convey many of the problems Alchemists find with their profession, and why so many people are turning their backs on it. Just giving us more recipes will not fix the situation. That just means we have to raid longer to try and obtain these new recipes.
Please Caydiem, Fangtooth, Eyonix, Tyren, Ordinn, and Kalgan submit my post to the developers and/or people in charge of professions to review the comments I have made above so we can improve the Alchemy skill before it is only used to transmute Arcanite Crystals and Truesilver bars. I have made this post as constructive as possible, and invested alot of time in gathering my thoughts and ideas in this thread for the greater good of Alchemist's everywhere.
Thank you
Famine[ post edited by Famine ]
R.I.P. Horsemen
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=2592969&p=#post2592969 | | | Poster: Tyren at 4/15/2005 10:36:47 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Constructive post to FIX Alchemy (help BL |
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During our PvP testing, we discovered that Alchemy-made potions were extremely valuable.
While that does not address this problem, I think the overall value of Alchemy and Alchemists will go through the roof once the honor system and battlegrounds come into the live game. We will further consider this discussion. Professions are carefully monitored and one discussion on engineering led to the creation of the engineering bot, so I'd ask you to be patient and see what may come. ;)
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=2592969&p=#post2605442 |
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