Poster: Hiigara at 9/8/2005 12:58:53 AM PDT
Subject: Can we PLEASE get some sort of 1.8 preview?! |
| |
Please give the druid community some sort of preview of what to expect in 1.8.
If certain changes are not going to be made, I simply will not play my druid any longer. If certain changes are going to be made, however, I want to start working on his gear and pvp rank, again. - I'm sure I'm not alone in having this mentality.
In response to the "roll another class" comments often made, I actually have other level 60 chars and - if the druid changes prove to be disappointing - I will happily concentrate on them. I just want to know whether I should bother with my druid any longer, as I've had him at 60 for 7 months and no longer actively play him.
Other classes have had several feedback and preview threads for changes. Even paladins -slated for review after us - have had threads opened asking for feedback.
However, the developers apparently do not want any feedback from folks who play druids - they say they already have a good idea on where to take the druid.
Yet, look at the upcoming ZG set bonus: +5 seconds to faerie fire. That's upcoming, not an old set bonus.. that's what they have *planned* for druids in the future. If the rest of their plans are as absurd... Goodbye, Druid.
Please, give us SOME sort of answer to our major concerns:
- Are we getting new spells? The current number of damage/combat spells is simply unacceptable. Add them as talents in the balance tree, just give us *something* besides wrath, moonfire, starfire.
- Will there be a change to hurricane? If it is to remain an "ultimate" and dmg to remain the same, will we at least be able to target it like nearly all aoe spells, or be able to set it and move like consecrate? If not, why? It's a low damage and low survivability spell that uses up an insane amount of mana - what possible reason is there to use it?
- Are we going to have some sort of crowd control? With the overwhelming number of CC options currently available, why would a druid's CC suddenly break the game? Zul'Farrak is an obvious example of how roots really doesn't change much.
**It was previously stated that instance difficulty was adjusted with crowd control options in mind.. seeing as how Zul was given a severe beating with a nerf bat, doesn't that say something about how little druid CC changed anything?**
- Will our set bonuses be changed completely? Currently, the Wildheart set bonuses are better than all other druid sets, and WH bonuses weren't all that great to begin with.
- Will our spirit nerf be removed (currently, we gain the absolute LEAST benefit from our own innervate spell) and will we finally regen mana like all other casters?
- Will our forms have some sort of relation to our weapons, allowing them to scale with other classes?
- Will we have any sort of viable mana-free damage options, like EVERY other class? Switching forms uses a ton of mana, and our melee dmg in caster form is comparable to a level 30 warrior. If we are resto spec'd, we need to be able to toss a talent point into wands or have another option for dealing dmg.
- Will we have an added talent to reduce global heal cast times? Even with a cast time of 1.5 seconds, regrowth would be a less mana-efficient and effective spell. Using the same amount of mana, priests can heal nearly the same amount of hp with two flash heals (3 secs total) than one regrowth (initial heal + HOT, 20+ seconds).
- Will tranquility be changed? I outright refuse to accept that a channeled, high-mana group heal needs a ten-minute cooldown.. as if it were more powerful than a pally becoming immune to everything at least twice every 5-minutes. Either kill the timer to something like 2-3 minutes, or make it powerful enough that the timer is justified.
- Will we have roles in end-game large raid instances? (besides "designated innervater")
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=403972&p=#post403972 | | | Poster: Caydiem at 9/8/2005 1:35:28 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Can we PLEASE get some sort of 1.8 preview?! |
| |
Q u o t e:
Are we getting new spells? The current number of damage/combat spells is simply unacceptable. Add them as talents in the balance tree, just give us *something* besides wrath, moonfire, starfire.
Rogues, a class dedicated to doing damage, have about seven different abilities used to do damage, eight if you count Gouge.
Druids have twelve as a whole, and they can heal to boot.
You may wish more variety in spells, and I can understand that, but you cannot ignore a very large chunk of the Druid class and proclaim lack of variety. You have three very functional damage-dealing spells that do two different types of damage that are not often protected against. I'm not precisely certain what it is you're looking for, but if you'd like variety in dealing damage, might I suggest feral forms? You do have those spells for a reason.
Q u o t e:
Will there be a change to hurricane? If it is to remain an "ultimate" and dmg to remain the same, will we at least be able to target it like nearly all aoe spells, or be able to set it and move like consecrate? If not, why? It's a low damage and low survivability spell that uses up an insane amount of mana - what possible reason is there to use it?
I'm fairly certain there's going to be a change in this capacity; the developers have long been aware that many Druids are unhappy with the spell as it is currently implemented.
Q u o t e:
Are we going to have some sort of crowd control? With the overwhelming number of CC options currently available, why would a druid's CC suddenly break the game? Zul'Farrak is an obvious example of how roots really doesn't change much.
**It was previously stated that instance difficulty was adjusted with crowd control options in mind.. seeing as how Zul was given a severe beating with a nerf bat, doesn't that say something about how little druid CC changed anything?**
Not really (in response to the last question posed, mind you).
Yes, all encounters are designed with the variety of crowd control available in mind. Druids have two forms of crowd control and they do both work quite well in my experience. Yes, they're situational. However, I almost always find a situation in which to use them when playing my Druid in groups. Dire Maul? No problem. BRS? Got you covered. And Zul'Gurub is an outside instance with Root kept in mind.
I would not expect a great deal of change on this front; the developers are fairly happy with where Druid crowd control stands at this point.
Q u o t e:
Will our set bonuses be changed completely? Currently, the Wildheart set bonuses are better than all other druid sets, and WH bonuses weren't all that great to begin with.
This is a question for the item designers, not the class designers, but I doubt they'll be changed significantly. I'll speak with them about it, though.
Q u o t e:
Will our spirit nerf be removed (currently, we gain the absolute LEAST benefit from our own innervate spell) and will we finally regen mana like all other casters?
I'm not certain there's going to be any change on this front.
Q u o t e:
Will our forms have some sort of relation to our weapons, allowing them to scale with other classes?
I don't have details on a lot of 1.8 yet, but in the past the developers have stated that they have no plans to add weapon damage to feral forms.
Q u o t e:
Will we have any sort of viable mana-free damage options, like EVERY other class? Switching forms uses a ton of mana, and our melee dmg in caster form is comparable to a level 30 warrior. If we are resto spec'd, we need to be able to toss a talent point into wands or have another option for dealing dmg.
Your "mana-free" damage option is Cat Form. You are a mana-using class that can take damage and also dish it out (increasingly so in 1.7 and, depending on talents, 1.8). There are no plans to my knowledge to allow Druids to use wands.
Q u o t e:
Will we have an added talent to reduce global heal cast times? Even with a cast time of 1.5 seconds, regrowth would be a less mana-efficient and effective spell. Using the same amount of mana, priests can heal nearly the same amount of hp with two flash heals (3 secs total) than one regrowth (initial heal + HOT, 20+ seconds).
I'm a Restoration Druid, and I can say with utmost confidence that I have never once had a problem with heal times. I use Rejuvenation when I must and can keep everyone going just fine. No one ever stated that Druids are meant to be the equal of a Holy-specced Priest in healing. In all honesty, this particular point of yours is not one I've seen hardly at all on the forums.
Q u o t e:
Will tranquility be changed? I outright refuse to accept that a channeled, high-mana group heal needs a ten-minute cooldown.. as if it were more powerful than a pally becoming immune to everything at least twice every 5-minutes. Either kill the timer to something like 2-3 minutes, or make it powerful enough that the timer is justified.
If you dislike the balance choice there, that's your opinion; I've had it work just fine in the majority of groups. If I'm in a group where I need to use it more than once in ten minutes, either we're having a lot of bad luck or I'm in a very unskilled group. :P
To my knowledge there are no plans to change this.
Q u o t e:
Will we have roles in end-game large raid instances? (besides "designated innervater")
I cannot state with utmost authority how non-Druid players will react to changes in 1.8, but I can say that the developers are taking steps to make any Druid, regardless of specialization, welcome in a party.
You want a full-on preview. I can't give one yet. When I have information, I will give it; but I do hope this gives you some idea of the direction it's going. I'm sorry if the direction isn't one you like, but it is a direction that a lot of Druid players -- perhaps not you specifically, but others -- have been looking for.
I've been playing the class since launch and I know by heart the biggest gripes players have had with both the Balance and Feral Combat trees. I look at the changes as they stand in 1.8 and see them more or less resolved, and that makes me, as a Druid player, well and truly excited for the future. I'm sorry if you don't feel the same.
- Caydiem -
/moo
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=403972&p=#post404002 | Poster: Caydiem at 9/8/2005 1:52:58 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Can we PLEASE get some sort of 1.8 preview?! |
| |
Q u o t e:
Ouch...
I was very excited about your posts earlier tonight when you were 'playing' with the new balance Druid.
After reading your responses to this I think I'm quite sad again. Why must root be the one spell that you refuse to let players use indoors? Why not affect one of the mage's many forms of crowd control. In all honesty, a Druid indoors has absolutely no way to use crowd control in any manner unless you shift to bear and bash.
And don't tell me that the 'roots sprouting up through a hard floor' doesn't fit the lore because that makes as much sense as the fact that cheetahs and wolves cannot exist indoors.
Hibernate is beautiful in BRS and Dire Maul. Yes, they do have another means of crowd control, and while it is situational, there are beasts in pretty much every dungeon. Believe me, I've spoken with the developers on the subject of root many times, and I still don't believe they're inclined to change its use.
Don't be sad just yet. I played with talent changes, remember, and know little of what (if anything, mind you) is changing outside of that at this point.
Don't judge the new changes until you see them and play with them. Will it be your dream Druid? Odds are it probably won't be. Druids have been dreaming for a long time, and many of the proposed suggestions do go outside the acceptable realm of balance. Everything I've seen so far, however, is a direct improvement to the current situation, and I say this without exaggeration. I'm fairly certain the Druid class will come out of this as a well-rounded class with true options besides Restoration, which was the goal in the first place.
- Caydiem -
/moo
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=403972&p=#post404024 | Poster: Caydiem at 9/8/2005 1:54:00 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Can we PLEASE get some sort of 1.8 previe |
| |
Q u o t e:
Q u o t e:
# Will we have an added talent to reduce global heal cast times? Even with a cast time of 1.5 seconds, regrowth would be a less mana-efficient and effective spell. Using the same amount of mana, priests can heal nearly the same amount of hp with two flash heals (3 secs total) than one regrowth (initial heal + HOT, 20+ seconds).
I'm a Restoration Druid, and I can say with utmost confidence that I have never once had a problem with heal times. I use Rejuvenation when I must and can keep everyone going just fine. No one ever stated that Druids are meant to be the equal of a Holy-specced Priest in healing. In all honesty, this particular point of yours is not one I've seen hardly at all on the forums.
so you've never pvp'd before?
I've PvPed quite a bit. Again, I still don't have a problem with it. Let's not assume. :P
- Caydiem -
/moo
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=403972&p=#post404025 | Poster: Caydiem at 9/8/2005 2:04:32 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Can we PLEASE get some sort of 1.8 previe |
| |
Q u o t e:
Thanks for the response. I won't ever give up hope or my love for the Druid class and I am still very eager to see the upcoming changes.
I just feel that the designers really do need to take a more in-depth view of some aspects of the Druid class. For example, you said we have 12 different ways to attack compared to a rogue with eight. To that, my response would be that quantity is not better than quality. Even more so, take Dire Bear form into consideration. What more can it do aside from auto-attack, maul, or swipe to cause damage?
The set bonuses truely do need some serious attention as well as some other factors. However, I'll try my best to continue waiting patiently and maintain a positive outlook. Judging by previous class changes and the upcoming hunter changes I assume I won't be disappointed.
Dire Bear form does what it does best -- soak damage. It's not meant to be a full-fledged Warrior, but a Warrior-in-a-pinch. That's really the form's purpose.
As I've said, I'm not the only one who plays a level 60 Druid. One of the class designers has a 60 Druid and is extremely knowledgeable about the class. You may disagree with what the developers eventually decide, but please don't take that to mean that they don't truly understand or didn't look long and hard at the various aspects of the Druid class, as that couldn't be further from the truth.
- Caydiem -
/moo
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=403972&p=#post404036 | Poster: Caydiem at 9/8/2005 2:09:46 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Can we PLEASE get some sort of 1.8 previe |
| |
I stated in my original reply that I'm going to talk to the item designer. :P
- Caydiem -
/moo
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=403972&p=#post404039 | Poster: Caydiem at 9/8/2005 2:22:21 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Can we PLEASE get some sort of 1.8 previe |
| |
Q u o t e:
My wording may not have been the best way to describe what I was trying to say.
("...designers really do need to take a more in-depth view of some aspects...")
You'll have to forgive me, its late and my brain is tired. :) - Anyhow, I do agree and believe that the developers are working very hard on the class.
However, your response has caused me to wonder if this one class designer is the main source of information on where to take the class? Is development marginally based on one person's opinion?
No.
I apologize for the over emphasis, but let me explain my position.
Players: "No one listens to our feedback!"
Me: "That's untrue; the developers do hear what you have to say."
Players: "Then they must not be able to relate to our problems. No one plays our class there!"
Me: "No, actually, we play every class."
Players: "Yeah, but it's probably some artist -- not anyone who has any real understanding of class balance."
Me: "Well, actually, one of the class designers plays a Druid and does quite well."
Players: "Then they're clearly biased in HIS opinions and not ours! No one listens to our feedback!"
And so goes the cycle. (Not referring to you in particular, just the mood swings of the forums.)
Obviously, with my presence here, we're past the part of "no one's listening" and onto the part where "no one understands", something that always comes into play when change is nigh. I'm merely trying to emphasize the fact that such a claim isn't true, not stating that he's the primary source of feedback.
- Caydiem -
/moo
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=403972&p=#post404065 | Poster: Caydiem at 9/8/2005 2:23:05 AM PDT
Subject: Re: Can we PLEASE get some sort of 1.8 previe |
| |
Q u o t e:
Cay what about us balance druids , it seems to me that ur restoration druid. So u don't know what it like for us Balance druids. Can u ask them to increase are spell damage?
Check out the other thread in which I've been active where I explain my adventures with a 1.8 Balance Druid earlier this night.
- Caydiem -
/moo
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=403972&p=#post404067 | Poster: Caydiem at 9/8/2005 12:04:13 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Can we PLEASE get some sort of 1.8 previe |
| |
Q u o t e:
your not seriously going to try to suggest that druids have better damage options than rogues are you?
I have been a Druid since closed Beta, And what concerns me is solo PvP ability and very small group PvP ability. Sure as it stands right now I can kill any other class. But the ammount of time it takes to do it makes it prohibitively long. With every ticking second the risk of him calling his friends goes up. I dont want rogue or mage like ability to dispach an opponent, But 5+ minutes on a rogue who has limited healing options, wears leather armor and generally have medium range on hitpoints is a bit much.
I wouldnt neccesarily want new spells. Just have our spells perform better with talents. If a guy is willing to put 30+ points into balance, he should get 30+ points worth out of it.
Mortal Strike,,,, Now there is a well designed talent. One talent that can completely destroy the mana pool and healing capacity of a small group. Give us something ... Powerful.
He was remarking on the fact that Balance has only three spells -- I was not in any way comparing the damage dealing abilities of the rogue with the Druid. Just variety. That's it.
- Caydiem -
/moo
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=403972&p=#post404895 | Poster: Caydiem at 9/8/2005 12:10:25 PM PDT
Subject: Re: Can we PLEASE get some sort of 1.8 previe |
| |
...that's the art team, and yes, those are placeholder graphics. I'm sure it will be updated eventually.
- Caydiem -
/moo
| | | http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=403972&p=#post404906 |
View all recent official Blue Posts
|
