[ post edited by Jenal ]

---

Q u o t e:
Is this the information that was fed to you by Blizzard? So, this trap bug has been in existence for 8 months???

That's a load of bull.

---

---

Q u o t e:
Caydiem you must understand our frustration.We're being told that one of our finest weapons,one of our best contributions can't be counted on....making it not worth jack!

So in short we're getting minor buffs and major nerfs.Quite frustrating.

---

[ post edited by Caydiem ]

---

Q u o t e:
# In another topic, the following report was given:
* "-Frost Traps were never intended to be resisted. There has never been documentation, a report from Blizzard employees, press release, rumor, or wild speculation that these traps could EVER, EVER, EVER be resisted. IMMUNITY is fine... just about all Boss mobs (and even a few elite types) are IMMUNE to lots of CC abilites. Frost traps being resisted (or outright disappearing when they were NOT disarmed) by anything other than those listed above is a BUG, period."

My response to this report was:
* "If something resists a trap the trap will disappear and no message comes up on the screen or combat log to signify that the trap has been resisted. This is a known bug that we are working on. Traps can be resisted like near all spells/skills -- it is their chance to "fail". There are many things we do not have documentation on in the game, but this does not mean it is not intended."

The fact that traps can be resisted is intended as stated. It seems I forgot to mention that previous to 1.6.0, traps were not able to be resisted. In design, we always meant to have traps resisted. However at some point traps stop being resisted due to a bug. Fixing this bug has changed traps back to their intended resistable form. We're sorry that this change was not posted in the patch notes.

There have been several reports that the fire-based traps seem to be resisting more than normal. This is something we're looking into right now. It seems the traps are using their own level for the resistance formula and not the Hunter's level. Once I have more information on this I'll let you all know.

---

---

Q u o t e:
It just seems like a huge stretch of the imagination that nobody on the development team noticed this massively overpowered bug for 8 months (a skill that is supposed to have a fairly significant resist rate never resists, and nobody notices this for 8 months of play), that there were no talents before this to help resist rates (even though the resists were intended, and other classes have resist boosting talents), that at no time before, during, or after these were added has there been any documentation, that all the documentation about traps that did exist never mentioned any chance of resist, that traps were already one of the least useful types of CC, and perhaps most difficult to swallow, that now, when this is supposed to be fixed, the combat log does not tell us that there is a resist.

Cayidem, I understand you're just the messenger, and I certainly don't blame you for doing your job, but to all outward apperances, we are being given the shaft by the development team, and being asked to take it and pretend we're cool with it.

We're not cool with it, and in now way am I calling you a liar, or saying that you personally are trying to deceive us, but how can we be expected to look at all those circumstances, and just call it the world's biggest chain of coincidences?

I'm sure you don't want to alienate us, and I believe that given the situation you're in, you're doing a fine job.

The fact is, hunters remember all too well the various "fixes" we've been expected to endure, and the explanations we've been given:

-Battle Shout
-Quiver Haste
-Shot Cooldown

We end up getting information from the devs, and they swear up and down that it's right, and we have to show them documentation that they don't know what they're talking about.

Maybe this is the same thing. Mabe the developers are not trying to pull the woll over our eyes. Maybe they just don't know a darn thing about how the class works, or how it should work.

---

---

Q u o t e:
Caydiem you must understand our frustration.We're being told that one of our finest weapons,one of our best contributions can't be counted on....making it not worth jack!

So in short we're getting minor buffs and major nerfs.Quite frustrating.

---

[ post edited by Caydiem ]

---

Q u o t e:
Ok, I'm going to be brutally honest here:

I was on vacation when 1.6 came out so I wasn't around the forums to hear the first waves of complaints. When I got back I went to my favorite spot in Winterspring to go reach level 60. I meet Mr. lvl 58 Icethisle Patriarch and lay a big fat immolation trap right infront of him. I step back a bit and line up an aimed shot. Shot hits, I send my pet, cast serpent sting, and watch Mr. Patriarch come barreling toward me in a rage. I step back and watch him run over my trap and not so much as "immolation trap resisted" appears on the log and my combat caller shows nothing and Mr. Yeti has taken no damage aside from the sting.

My FIRST trap in 1.6 got resisted! Not once in my entire previous 50 levels had one been resisted! It didn't take all that much testing to confirm my suspicions either, of the next 10 traps I used, only 6 worked! Wow 60%!

---

---

Q u o t e:
Cay, I understand and agree with you about how this came about. However, this remark right here is why we're mad. They're NOT situational, they're VERY INTEGRAL to the class, especially freeze trap. In 5man they're what a hunter relies on as part of his job every pull. I even understand if they were resistable in PvP since it feels like a sort of "cheap" tactic.

The comparisons are bad to other crowd control though. If Polymorph, Root, or any other crowd control is resisted / missed / etc, then the time to get another chance at the cc is the cast time on the spell (never more than 3 seconds at the very worst). Even on a bad sap (which I've seen a few times) you can do something like vanish/try again. On a trap, you have to factor in the time to get away from the mob (you can't be in range of any sort of aoe/cleave/etc), pull off your pet (and if your pet's offtanking your one chance is blown), feign death, wait for feign death to remove you from combat (which can be a second or two), the time to drop a trap (about half a second?) and then you have to fight to get the aggro of the mob back on you since you lost all aggro when you feigned. That's assuming feign doesn't get resisted. If it's resisted, that's another THIRTY SECONDS. If a CC spell fails a second time, you just cast it again, and again...this is why people request mages over hunters.

The devs wanted to make us MORE appealing for small groups, didn't they?

---

---

Q u o t e:
This shows me that you lack any reasonable understanding of solo play. I extensively soloed with my hunter and I was using then on almost every solo pull I ever did.

Caydiem, with the assertation that: " by and large odss are you're not using them much." you have destroyed any confidence I had in your understanding of a hunter character.

---

---

Q u o t e:
Caydiem,

Can you show us your planned level 60 talent build?

With much love,
Sharptooth

---

[ post edited by Caydiem ]

---

Q u o t e:
If you had used traps, even on "certain pulls" with not one trap resisting, and being a player of more then one class, and knowing that the comparablr abilities like root, drost nova and sheep do indeed have resists, why was there no red-flag raised at this point and the issue looked into, and even brought up?


I am in no way saying there is one way to play, but it does seem to me that you are saying: "Things will not be tested and resolved unless you play the way I do.

Again: I am in no way saying that my way is the only way ... what I do say, is no matter the style of play you use, traps are used and to say in eight months of playing a class where even "certain" pulls have traps being used it is reasonable to assume that a person would note that not once was a trap ever resisted.

---

---

Q u o t e:
... issues such as... deadzone... perhaps?

/em hears crickets chirping in the background...

---

---

Q u o t e:
You should play again. Because we're the bestest class evar.

---

---

Q u o t e:
I play on PVE server so my pvp experience is limited but I read what's on here and have developed my own techniques for doing damage that leaves the pet taking the hits and not me.

Taking on mobs where you are pretty sure you are going to be taking on 2 at once. Freezing trap down so that you can pull one into the trap and can ignore it for a while. Cave etc where you don't know the patrol pathing - trap is definitely going down.

Fighting an elite or high hp mob at level 60, immolation trap down so that when I draw aggro off my pet (as I'm inevitably going to do over a long fight) it runs thru that before getting to me. That way it has at least one DOT on it and I can then decide to melee or try and get away.

I know you don't read everything here, but favorite time to take down another player on a PVP server - when they are distracted fighting a mob. Trap down behind you to reduce the risk of something successfully sneaking up on you.

Mob at lower level, maybe - depends on the situation, always nice to have it there as a backup.

This is why CM's get criticism for not having more experience with higher level characters. I'm not doing Wintersaber Provisions for example without always having a trap down - dead pet + damaged armor does not = happy hunter.

---

[ post edited by Caydiem ]

---

Q u o t e:
14 pages... Good Lord.

Is Blizzard reading this, Cay? I'm checking with you now so we won't be told later that these discussions 'slipped by' them like the fact that traps were unresistable and talked about extensively and repeatedly for 9 months.

---

---

Q u o t e:
Traps are being resisted with some regularity now. I've noticed this since the 1.6 patch and can't remember a time before the patch that my traps were resisted. Is this going to be addressed and fixed?

---

---

Q u o t e:
Is this the information that was fed to you by Blizzard? So, this trap bug has been in existence for 8 months???

That's a load of bull.

---

---

Q u o t e:
Caydiem you must understand our frustration.We're being told that one of our finest weapons,one of our best contributions can't be counted on....making it not worth jack!

So in short we're getting minor buffs and major nerfs.Quite frustrating.

---

[ post edited by Caydiem ]

[ post edited by Caydiem ]

---

Q u o t e:
# In another topic, the following report was given:
* "-Frost Traps were never intended to be resisted. There has never been documentation, a report from Blizzard employees, press release, rumor, or wild speculation that these traps could EVER, EVER, EVER be resisted. IMMUNITY is fine... just about all Boss mobs (and even a few elite types) are IMMUNE to lots of CC abilites. Frost traps being resisted (or outright disappearing when they were NOT disarmed) by anything other than those listed above is a BUG, period."

My response to this report was:
* "If something resists a trap the trap will disappear and no message comes up on the screen or combat log to signify that the trap has been resisted. This is a known bug that we are working on. Traps can be resisted like near all spells/skills -- it is their chance to "fail". There are many things we do not have documentation on in the game, but this does not mean it is not intended."

The fact that traps can be resisted is intended as stated. It seems I forgot to mention that previous to 1.6.0, traps were not able to be resisted. In design, we always meant to have traps resisted. However at some point traps stop being resisted due to a bug. Fixing this bug has changed traps back to their intended resistable form. We're sorry that this change was not posted in the patch notes.

There have been several reports that the fire-based traps seem to be resisting more than normal. This is something we're looking into right now. It seems the traps are using their own level for the resistance formula and not the Hunter's level. Once I have more information on this I'll let you all know.

---

---

Q u o t e:
It just seems like a huge stretch of the imagination that nobody on the development team noticed this massively overpowered bug for 8 months (a skill that is supposed to have a fairly significant resist rate never resists, and nobody notices this for 8 months of play), that there were no talents before this to help resist rates (even though the resists were intended, and other classes have resist boosting talents), that at no time before, during, or after these were added has there been any documentation, that all the documentation about traps that did exist never mentioned any chance of resist, that traps were already one of the least useful types of CC, and perhaps most difficult to swallow, that now, when this is supposed to be fixed, the combat log does not tell us that there is a resist.

Cayidem, I understand you're just the messenger, and I certainly don't blame you for doing your job, but to all outward apperances, we are being given the shaft by the development team, and being asked to take it and pretend we're cool with it.

We're not cool with it, and in now way am I calling you a liar, or saying that you personally are trying to deceive us, but how can we be expected to look at all those circumstances, and just call it the world's biggest chain of coincidences?

I'm sure you don't want to alienate us, and I believe that given the situation you're in, you're doing a fine job.

The fact is, hunters remember all too well the various "fixes" we've been expected to endure, and the explanations we've been given:

-Battle Shout
-Quiver Haste
-Shot Cooldown

We end up getting information from the devs, and they swear up and down that it's right, and we have to show them documentation that they don't know what they're talking about.

Maybe this is the same thing. Mabe the developers are not trying to pull the woll over our eyes. Maybe they just don't know a darn thing about how the class works, or how it should work.

---

---

Q u o t e:
Ok, I'm going to be brutally honest here:

I was on vacation when 1.6 came out so I wasn't around the forums to hear the first waves of complaints. When I got back I went to my favorite spot in Winterspring to go reach level 60. I meet Mr. lvl 58 Icethisle Patriarch and lay a big fat immolation trap right infront of him. I step back a bit and line up an aimed shot. Shot hits, I send my pet, cast serpent sting, and watch Mr. Patriarch come barreling toward me in a rage. I step back and watch him run over my trap and not so much as "immolation trap resisted" appears on the log and my combat caller shows nothing and Mr. Yeti has taken no damage aside from the sting.

My FIRST trap in 1.6 got resisted! Not once in my entire previous 50 levels had one been resisted! It didn't take all that much testing to confirm my suspicions either, of the next 10 traps I used, only 6 worked! Wow 60%!

---

---

Q u o t e:
Cay, I understand and agree with you about how this came about. However, this remark right here is why we're mad. They're NOT situational, they're VERY INTEGRAL to the class, especially freeze trap. In 5man they're what a hunter relies on as part of his job every pull. I even understand if they were resistable in PvP since it feels like a sort of "cheap" tactic.

The comparisons are bad to other crowd control though. If Polymorph, Root, or any other crowd control is resisted / missed / etc, then the time to get another chance at the cc is the cast time on the spell (never more than 3 seconds at the very worst). Even on a bad sap (which I've seen a few times) you can do something like vanish/try again. On a trap, you have to factor in the time to get away from the mob (you can't be in range of any sort of aoe/cleave/etc), pull off your pet (and if your pet's offtanking your one chance is blown), feign death, wait for feign death to remove you from combat (which can be a second or two), the time to drop a trap (about half a second?) and then you have to fight to get the aggro of the mob back on you since you lost all aggro when you feigned. That's assuming feign doesn't get resisted. If it's resisted, that's another THIRTY SECONDS. If a CC spell fails a second time, you just cast it again, and again...this is why people request mages over hunters.

The devs wanted to make us MORE appealing for small groups, didn't they?

---

---

Q u o t e:
This shows me that you lack any reasonable understanding of solo play. I extensively soloed with my hunter and I was using then on almost every solo pull I ever did.

Caydiem, with the assertation that: " by and large odss are you're not using them much." you have destroyed any confidence I had in your understanding of a hunter character.

---

---

Q u o t e:
Caydiem,

Can you show us your planned level 60 talent build?

With much love,
Sharptooth

---

[ post edited by Caydiem ]

---

Q u o t e:
If you had used traps, even on "certain pulls" with not one trap resisting, and being a player of more then one class, and knowing that the comparablr abilities like root, drost nova and sheep do indeed have resists, why was there no red-flag raised at this point and the issue looked into, and even brought up?


I am in no way saying there is one way to play, but it does seem to me that you are saying: "Things will not be tested and resolved unless you play the way I do.

Again: I am in no way saying that my way is the only way ... what I do say, is no matter the style of play you use, traps are used and to say in eight months of playing a class where even "certain" pulls have traps being used it is reasonable to assume that a person would note that not once was a trap ever resisted.

---

---

Q u o t e:
... issues such as... deadzone... perhaps?

/em hears crickets chirping in the background...

---

---

Q u o t e:
You should play again. Because we're the bestest class evar.

---

---

Q u o t e:
I play on PVE server so my pvp experience is limited but I read what's on here and have developed my own techniques for doing damage that leaves the pet taking the hits and not me.

Taking on mobs where you are pretty sure you are going to be taking on 2 at once. Freezing trap down so that you can pull one into the trap and can ignore it for a while. Cave etc where you don't know the patrol pathing - trap is definitely going down.

Fighting an elite or high hp mob at level 60, immolation trap down so that when I draw aggro off my pet (as I'm inevitably going to do over a long fight) it runs thru that before getting to me. That way it has at least one DOT on it and I can then decide to melee or try and get away.

I know you don't read everything here, but favorite time to take down another player on a PVP server - when they are distracted fighting a mob. Trap down behind you to reduce the risk of something successfully sneaking up on you.

Mob at lower level, maybe - depends on the situation, always nice to have it there as a backup.

This is why CM's get criticism for not having more experience with higher level characters. I'm not doing Wintersaber Provisions for example without always having a trap down - dead pet + damaged armor does not = happy hunter.

---

[ post edited by Caydiem ]

---

Q u o t e:
14 pages... Good Lord.

Is Blizzard reading this, Cay? I'm checking with you now so we won't be told later that these discussions 'slipped by' them like the fact that traps were unresistable and talked about extensively and repeatedly for 9 months.

---

---

Q u o t e:
Traps are being resisted with some regularity now. I've noticed this since the 1.6 patch and can't remember a time before the patch that my traps were resisted. Is this going to be addressed and fixed?

---